Ep. 23 - Film and Family: Which is Most Important?

Ep.23-Film and Family: Which is Most Important?

Kent Thalman: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]Hi, I'm Kent 
Anna Thalman: [00:00:09] and  I'm Anna
Kent Thalman: [00:00:10] And this is film and family. If you are a filmmaker and you're ready to take your relationship with yourself and your film career to the next level you are in the right place, hit subscribe to never miss an episode. 
Anna Thalman: [00:00:21] Let's jump right in.  
Kent Thalman: [00:00:30] what we're going to dive into specifically is  film or family or this idea of what would you choose. So I want you to think for a minute about. If somehow there were two goblets laid on the table before you, and one said illustrious film career. And the other said a very happy content family. [00:01:00] which one would you choose to drink? And if you could only have one, and I think that that's really a question of priorities, but. I really also think that many of us maybe generally, but especially at least in times and seasons of our lives have often felt like that's the either or, and I'll push this a little farther. I think a lot of us know that we could go get a job in film or video, just fine and have a good family life. Like, you know, working at like a us commercial, marketing company or doing freelance videos on your own or doing wedding videos, stuff that, you know, obviously you can make time for family and all that stuff, but what I'm really getting at here, at least for me, maybe this is just me being personal, is making feature films. The feature films that people see feature [00:02:00] films that have a budget piece feature films that are actually enough money to support a family. But even if it is enough money to support family, the grind that it takes to write them and be on set, whether you're producing them or directing them or d.P.iNg them a lot of actors, you know, or if they're busy, which is great. Find themselves constantly on set. So a successful career seems to suck away their life and time. So I'm talking about, big movie making kind of filmmaking, not necessarily tent pole, but regular living wage feature, film work, and an authority. Wow. I think I just tried to make up a word there, hit a train wreck anyway, all my metaphors and idioms, and even just vocab words are crumbling at this very moment. I'm speaking in the terms of some sort of. role of authorship, director, writer, producer, actor, one of those key roles. I think that's where most of us would really like to be. I don't, I don't know if any of us woke up and said, I'm going to be the most famous grip [00:03:00] of all time, and there's nothing wrong with grips because I mean, That's really great work and they're super essential. but I don't know if that's your dream. I don't think that's disrespectful to say, is that on the podcast? I don't know if that's like what people really, really, really want to do if they're trying to author films or if they're listening to this podcast, frankly. 
Anna Thalman: [00:03:19] Yeah. Well, and when you asked the question about the two goblets, which I would choose, I think most people would say that they choose family hands down, no contest. Now there are exceptions to that. And some people would say, I don't really have a family yet. So I'm just going to pursue the film thing. 
Kent Thalman: [00:03:36] Some people don't have that goal. 
Anna Thalman: [00:03:37] Some people don't have that goal, but at least in the circles that we walk in, I think most people would say that they would choose family. And at least for me, that's definitely more of a priority. I just think people matter more than things and movies are just things. And this is something that we are trying to teach our kids, our son, Marshall, he. [00:04:00] Sometimes  gets mad at his sisters because they touch his things and we're trying to teach him.
Kent Thalman: [00:04:04] He's 5
Anna Thalman: [00:04:05] Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. 
Kent Thalman: [00:04:06] That's something I was expecting from like a 13 year old, 
Anna Thalman: [00:04:11] but we're trying to teach him that people matter more than things and those relationships will last so much longer than the toys and he just won't care when he's older, but he will care about the relationship he has with his sisters.
Same thing with a family. I just think in the end, those relationships will last forever and the movies are just things, but the name alone of this podcast is something that many people don't believe in that little word and between film and family. Was a huge breakthrough for me, because I think I also suffered from black and white thinking it's film or it's family. And I want it to be both, but I didn't believe that was possible. I didn't know if it was possible. I [00:05:00] wanted to believe it was possible. 
Kent Thalman: [00:05:01] And the unique thing about our situation is that we're both in it. And I think for a lot of women, the reason there aren't a lot of women in the film industry is because a lot of women do prioritize this, thing about family and. I would agree that that's a more important priority, not just for women, but for men. I think it's a more important thing in life. However,  we can also see how, if that traditional role is assumed of the mom, the one being the being the one that stays home, that even, a job at, a commercial production or a marketing company. Or even just an in-house video editor, videographer, whatever, at a commercial company, or just a corporate entity, that that's going to be an eight or more hour, day kind of work load. And so in our situation, how would the spouse, who's decided to take on the role of parent in a full-time capacity? I can see why that would be a big hurdle. I'm saying for you. How would you get that and how would that even work? And so, luckily we're both in this and we're [00:06:00] both self-employed and so it's been a big journey to make this a reality. but I think creative solutions exist for everyone, whether you're a man or a woman, a mom, or a dad, director, editor, actor, screenwriter, whether you're both. In the industry or one of you only is in the industry, whether your spouse has a job or not. I think that there are creative solutions to finding this in the how. Really isn't the most important part. I think it's, we've talked about this before, but it's the why. 
Anna Thalman: [00:06:30] Yeah. And I think that's why it was so hard for me to believe it because I didn't know the, how, and as long as I did not know the, how, I didn't know that it was possible in my mind. And I did kind of feel like. It wasn't either, or it was either you or it was me, you know, one of us was gonna get to do it and it was probably going to be you because I was the only one who could nurse the babies and, it's very difficult to be on set if you have a baby, due you know? So there's that whole aspect of having a family that. [00:07:00] Only I could do 
Kent Thalman: [00:07:01] Well as a young person with a spouse where we both shared the common goal of having multiple kids while we're young. Yeah. That especially kind of locks you down for a few years. 
Anna Thalman: [00:07:12] Yeah. And you could say that we're lucky that we're both in this, and now we have a very good system where we're able to trade off, but I bring that up because it didn't always feel that way. And no matter what your situation is, you may feel the same way that I did, which is kind of that, or it's either. Or, and I struggled with a lot of feelings of conflict between what I knew was more important. And what I also felt was very important and. How I could reconcile both. 
Kent Thalman: [00:07:42] Yeah. Well, I'd like to ask you some questions, Anna, what do you feel like was the breakthrough, or was it a breakthrough? Was it just a, you know, You just kinda had to fight through it. 
Anna Thalman: [00:07:53] Well I think it was something I, I chose to believe. We talked on an earlier podcast about the parable [00:08:00] of the talents that was part of the breakthrough was realizing that. God actually wanted me to use my talents. And I think I had this belief that God wanted me to stay home and be with my family because they were more important.
Kent Thalman: [00:08:13] So there's a should problem there. I think a lot of us struggle with should problems should problems are problems that we have because we think we should do one thing and we want to do something else which creates a lot of cognitive dissonance. And those are very count. I think we all have our own should problems with ourselves and others with others. It's really problematic because we actually can't control what those people, what anyone else does. But with ourselves it can become extremely problematic because we start to think we should do something different or we're doing the right thing, but we should want something different. because we can fill the other want inside of us. So I want to have a film career, but I should stay home and take care of my kids. can be a really frustrating thing because you're dealing with these wants and there are some wants or desires in our life [00:09:00] that we actually would be happier without. Do we can just nix and have them go away and, and that's possible. It's possible to get rid of wants that we don't want desires that we would like to live without. It's also possible to, well, in some cases it's totally worth, I should say, reconsidering those, reconsidering. Do we need to believe that? Do we need to believe that. You know, we should be doing that thing or this thing. I'm not giving a specific example. I just think they're all worth bringing under question. and seeing if they can't be brought into harmony with the truths and values that we hold dear in our heart, whether those are religious or ethical or moral, political, whatever it is, something that matters to you that you think is a true principle. Sometimes you can step back and say, okay, well, I know that I've assumed that this. Commandment or philosophy or ethical principle meant that this is what I should be doing, but if I reassess it, maybe I could understand it more deeply and realize that I could [00:10:00] have the thing I want and still be in line with those principles that I actually don't want to abandon.
Anna Thalman: [00:10:07] Yeah. I think when that cognitive dissonance appears, that's where I want. To introduce the, and, and just notice when your brain is giving you an either or, because I think we do it more often than we realize. We often just flipped to the other extreme. So, you know, if I'm telling someone, this belief is not serving you, maybe you should let it go. And they jump right to the opposite belief. Like, wait, you're saying, I shouldn't believe this. For example, I'm trying to fit an example in here, the film career, If the belief that, I don't know how to put it in an exam and do an example 
Kent Thalman: [00:10:43] because you're a woman that you should stay home, and stay with your kids. 
Anna Thalman: [00:10:46] yeah So if that's not serving me, it's causing a lot of dissonance for me, and it's not really taking me towards my goals of having a happy family and this, I might let go of that thought. But then it's easy to assume Oh, [00:11:00] well, if you don't believe that, then that means that film is more important than family. And you jumped right to the opposite, right? So this is not so extreme. 
Kent Thalman: [00:11:07] And this reminds me of sort of the head galleon, dialectic, right? Hagle who inspired Marx Karl Marx to come up with the idea of the dialectic. well, Hagle came up with the idea and marx kind of recontextualized it and came up with, I don't know, communism, but actually think that the dialectic as Hagle came up with it is really powerful. It's actually an idea that I have been. Sort of really in love with, for the last, I'd say six years, that there's a thesis, which is a first idea. And then there's an antithesis, which is sort of the rebuttal or the opposite, or the, what in our minds we're on our culture or our general zeitgeists guys seems to be the. Antithesis of the thesis, the opposite of the idea, the opposition, the other side, maybe even the should. And this idea that these two things are kind of [00:12:00] all wrong, for example, capitalism, capitalism versus socialism, that would be a thesis versus an antithesis. And you could switch those around it doesn't matter, but there are two ideas that are kind of at odds. The other examples here are. Having a family, which has a certain kind of lifestyle, which makes sense when you're thinking in terms of a nuclear family, you know, one person works, one person stays home. How do you, you know, family film? So that seemed like an antithesis and a thesis. And then there's this idea of achieving what is a synthesis, which is marrying the best parts of both of those and the marriage doesn't produce some sort of androgynous, Sort of mutant of the two things. It produces a child, which is a third completely independent individual separate thing with the traits of both or maybe even the best traits of both combined. And so it's this idea of,  always [00:13:00] looking for that third option that,  outside of the box idea. And so this can apply to a lot of cognitive stumps and slumps and brick walls in our life where we go, okay, I want this thing or I have to have this thing and we go, okay, well, can we synthesize those things? Is there a way we can allow these separate passions to bleed together and inform each other? And that's when you get people like. I don't know, John Lasseter and Steve jobs and ed Catmull, and they make Pixar, which was this brain child of the computer and the artist. And that's what form, I mean, it sounds so obvious now, obviously in retrospect, At the time it was inconceivable, right? Steve jobs came up with type fonts in a similar way, calligraphy and graphic user interface, graphic user interface, wasn't even a thing. It was just user interface. That was a, basically a terminal on a computer. These things that we think are obvious now were [00:14:00] brilliant synthesizing breakthroughs in their day. and so your life needs those Noam Kroll talks about this, where he says. Bring your power as a creative, not just into your filmmaking, but into your life, into your lifestyle, into your relationships. I think that's a great, a great perspective to have. And so, so yeah, 
Anna Thalman: [00:14:19] yeah.
Kent Thalman: [00:14:22] So, yeah, It's the princess bride scene where he's like strapped to the torture chair and the guy's like you're in the dungeon. Sorry. 
Anna Thalman: [00:14:37] Great joke. Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. I. think that's exactly how I felt was that I couldn't fathom that I could have both because I was like, I cannot, I literally cannot be filmmaking and watching my kids at the same time. So it has to be one or the other. But now in retrospect, it [00:15:00] seems so obvious that I could have both. At the time. It didn't feel that way because I didn't know the how. And I think that the beautiful thing is you don't have to know the, how you don't know. You don't have to know the synthesis right away. You just have to believe that there is one, 
Kent Thalman: [00:15:14] yeah. You know, think of all the greatest breakthroughs in history. They never came from people who were like, yeah, well that's probably impossible. And then they're like, Oh, Hmm. Maybe it's not, Oh, I figured it out. I figured out all the mechanics of it and all the how and all the details, I guess it is possible. No, it came from people who were told it was impossible by. Everybody else, but they refused to believe it. Well, all their secret was that they just believed it. They 
Anna Thalman: [00:15:37] They believed it, believed it and didn't give up. And that's the thing. I think that separates those who succeed from those who don't more than anything else is just the. How long can they go without giving up?
Kent Thalman: [00:15:48] Yeah. And how long can they just, believe the quote unquote impossible. It's really, I think encouraging that if you have something in your life that you think is totally impossible, I want you to [00:16:00] pinpoint it and then maybe even 10 exit and then just work, work to believe that because that's, The trait. I think of the people that change the world, look at something that just seems like it could never be whether it's a part of your life or it's an accomplishment you want to achieve. And then just work hard at believing that  that could be affirmations, write it down and say to yourself once or multiple times a day. or even just. Work at it a little bit, every single day. Tell people about it, tell people that you're doing it, or what it is you want to do or what it is you believe in and notice the drama that comes up. Notice all that internal resistance and be like, I can't say that even just saying I'm a filmmaker, I'm a film director. I'm a writer producer. I'm an actor. I have a movie that's going to be shooting next month. I do actually have a movie that's going to be shooting next next month. It actually isn't completely funded yet. You might hear that. And I think [00:17:00] what you might think, or maybe what I might think is how can you say that if it's not funded yet? That sounds a little overconfident. I don't know. Are you lying to yourself? No, I actually truly believe that it's going to happen next month because I'm going to make it happen. And I have actually received a lot of interest from people who said they want to invest, but I don't know for sure that that's going to cover the whole entirety of the budget. I don't really care. That's all how stuff I know that this movie is going to happen next month. I've chosen to believe, and I've worked hard to believe it. And only after I've done that work, have those investors express the interest in investing. So you can see how this kind of works. do that with the film and family thing. If those are two priorities, which I assume if you're listening to this podcast titled film and family, that those are two priorities for you. Just start now, believe it, and work at it, write it down and say what it is you want. What kind of a family do you want? Do you want 12 kids? Maybe you do. Who cares? No one can tell you that's crazy if you want it, make it [00:18:00] happen and talk to your spouse first. And if you, if you, if you want to make movies that are tent pole hundred million plus dollar budget films for studios, do it. Believe it, and then do whatever you have to do and put yourself on the, on the path, whatever you think that is to get there. If you want to work with one of our friends is, affirmations is, I'm so happy and grateful that I am going to get to work with, Daniel Day Lewis, who is officially retired from acting, but as impossible as that sounds, he's like, I'm going to be the person who inspires Daniel Day-Lewis to come back to acting because. I'm going to make a career for myself and inspire that good of talent to work with me. And maybe even Daniel Day Lewis will decide to come out of retirement and work with me. Does that sound insane? Someone's going to do it. It's going to be him 
Anna Thalman: [00:18:48] well, and it's good to stretch your mind and look to the future. And we really don't know what's going to happen ever, but there's a lot of things that we plan in the future and we don't have so much drama [00:19:00] about. We're like, yeah, 
Kent Thalman: [00:19:01] I'm going to own a house one day. 
Anna Thalman: [00:19:03] I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to go meet you on Friday. 
Kent Thalman: [00:19:07] Yeah. 
Anna Thalman: [00:19:07] And, Friday comes and we meet each other or not. If it doesn't happen, it's not a big deal because as long as we don't give up, we'll just reschedule and we'll do it again and we'll make it work. And each time you figure out, if we don't make it happen, why and you solve for it and you set a new. You know, a new date
Kent Thalman: [00:19:28] without it sounding, uh, boringly obvious, I think your point is, is that there's a reason that's boring. There's no drama around that. For some reason, we're just like, Oh, there were some obstacles. And you know, we'll just figure it out, but there's not these stakes this drama, but you can get there to that point. I think is your point
Anna Thalman: [00:19:45] Yeah. I'm just saying, think of something that you do feel confident is going to happen in the future. Why do you feel confident? That that's going to happen because it's just as likely that that won't happen as it is anything else, but you just choose to believe that it's going to happen [00:20:00] and you don't know how you don't have to know the future too. Kind of make the future, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Kent Thalman: [00:20:08] Believe in it, believe in something and believe in the future you want. 
Anna Thalman: [00:20:12] That was something that helped us figure out. A lot of the bumps was when we got down into the details and said, well, what would an ideal life look like if we set aside the money and the, you know, in the time, and we set aside, like all of these things that we're trying to figure out, what would I like to spend. My days doing and we kind of figured out, well, I actually would like to spend a good portion of my day with my family, with my kids. I'd like to be the one who raises them, but I would also like to spend a good portion of my day making films and making a difference by serving people who are also trying to make films. And 
Kent Thalman: [00:20:44] yeah, 
Anna Thalman: [00:20:45] and, so we started to figure out that we could switch off and we could both have time with the kids. We could both have time to work on films in the evenings. We could do it together. It seems so obvious now, but it still is surprising when I tell people [00:21:00] how we work our schedule. They're like Ohhh 
Kent Thalman: [00:21:02] the, how is interesting they go. How do you do that? Which is funny that that's almost always the first question. How do you do that? Because to them, it sounds impossible and it's not like we're, 
Anna Thalman: [00:21:12] it's not common. 
Kent Thalman: [00:21:13] Yeah. 
Anna Thalman: [00:21:14] But it works like you work mornings. I work afternoons. We switch off with the kids. And that's what works for us right now 
Kent Thalman: [00:21:21] took us years of drama, to figure out and it really does. it's never that simple. I mean, there's a lot to this, if you don't fixate on the how, just believe in the end, then you really will believe in the end result, believe in what you know, what you want and that how will just come into your life, it'll come into your brain. You will just learn it and your life will teach you. Because you're moving toward it, even if it's blindly, because you're moving toward it, the fog is going to clear. You're going to get closer to the object. You're going to see it. And then you're going to maneuver around it. And suddenly you're going to realize, Oh, the, how is a left and then a right. And then a loop de loop around that tree and then, a whatever, and then you've figured it [00:22:00] out. You could never see it from way back where you were before. That's why the, how is you could spend your whole life trying to figure out the how, but unless you just believe it and move toward it, you'll never figure it out. And. And that's the case with the feature filmmaking that we've been doing, the, how has just been rushing into our lives because we've been rushing toward the, the what, you know, and the, how is just figuring itself out we're we are figuring the how out 
Anna Thalman: [00:22:23] well. And the only thing between you and your goal are the obstacles. So actually 
Kent Thalman: [00:22:28] and the obstacles are the how
Anna Thalman: [00:22:29] the obstacles are the, how you strategize around those. And those become the, how is to say. This obstacle is, the next thing that's the next stepping stone is to overcome this obstacle. So that actually lets you know what to do at any given moment. And then once you don't have any more obstacles, you have your goal 
Kent Thalman: [00:22:47] right on. I hope that this has helped you kind of branch your mind out, open it up and just disrupt some of these limiting beliefs and struggles that might exist. Hopefully this doesn't sound [00:23:00] like Hocus Pocus. This is. Frankly as real as anything, it's, it's beyond just affirmations. there are true principles here at work that will, empower you to really, truly accomplish things that that would otherwise seem impossible to me. That is a very encouraging, thought, to believe that when I shift my perspectives and my attitudes, Things that feel impossible, become mine because they're not impossible. Other people have done almost any of these things that we've imagined. maybe that means we need to think even more crazy. 
Anna Thalman: [00:23:29] Well, and I just wanna touch on something else here, which is a more recent thing that I've been trying to figure out, which is how our brains tend to focus on what we don't have. More than on what we do have. And even though I can have both film and family, I do want to always remember that family is more important to me and that's my priority. and I also do believe you can't have something for nothing. And in that way, every gain is also a loss of something else. And [00:24:00] so, you know, time that I spend with my family is a loss of. Something else that I'm giving up to have that time and time that I spend on my career is also a loss of something else that I could be using that time for. And I do believe that, but you know, it's reconciling sometimes it's even a blessing to not have the thing that you think you want more because you would lose something more precious. And so sometimes I think it's actually. By the grace of God that we are spared that gain because it would actually be a loss of something else it's that we need to realize is more important. And so sometimes the reason we're not getting the thing we think we will is because we actually don't want it as much. it doesn't matter as much. And we need to learn that lesson still and we wouldn't learn it if we got both. So that's just something that. I've been thinking about, I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Kent Thalman: [00:24:59] Oh, sorry. [00:25:00] Yeah, I think that, I think that's been the case for me, for sure. In my life where I've fought for something that I wanted. And then ultimately, as I started moving, I think I started doing the same thing. Right. I'm moved without knowing the, how toward the, what the house started to clarify. But then that thing became less valuable to me, or it just didn't come into my life long enough that I suddenly realized that I didn't actually need it suddenly became irrelevant. and that's when you realized that, you know, I'm glad I didn't have that thing immediately. if it was just handed to me, I think I would have either undervalued it or missed the Mark somehow on something else that was more important. I don't kNow, what that is for any single given person. on the one hand, I think I can leave it open. That that could be any given what, for any given person, maybe for some people that's, that's a film career. I don't believe that about myself to be honest, but I think for other people it might be a certain amount of money or [00:26:00] money situation.  I  think leaving space open is okay.  I think we're afraid that if we do that that somehow we will I've never felt like that was the case. Or that that [00:27:00] needed to be the case And so I've, I have pursued it and I think it's worth pursuing for everyone who feels the need to. And if you feel like you want to, what value is there in questioning that want, unless you feel some real deep feeling that there's something better in your life in that case, then maybe you want something else more, but pursue it. Pursue it and you'll discover what you need to about yourself. it'll become clear. 
Anna Thalman: [00:27:31] Yeah, I like that. You said the word means, and this idea of film is a means to an end. Hopefully at least for me, if I think about my purpose and I would like my purpose to be that I help people. Realize their potential. I help people believe in themselves and in their future. And there are lots of ways I could do that. I could do that with my family. I can do that with film. I can do that in [00:28:00] lots of different capacities. And as long as I know what the ends are, then the means don't really matter. The how doesn't really matter. It's just the why and that gives me a lot of freedom because. You know, if I were to lose everything I could still, do that. 
Kent Thalman: [00:28:17] Yeah. And I think that regardless,  a lot of us get fixed on the means. In fact, we think that the means are an end. And I think we're going to do a whole episode on this topic, but this idea of what is your end goal it's to be on set, making these kinds of big movies and it's like but why that's, that's a means. Making big movies as a means to something else. It's not a, it's not an end. It could be if that's a you make it, but then what, you know, that's a pretty, it's kind of a materialistic end, the idea of the budget of the movie or the type of movie or the genre of the movie or the whatever But what does it mean? Ultimately, in terms of our relationships with our audience, with our. [00:29:00] Coworkers with our families with, ourselves, with,  with God. eventually that's the end? The end is something that, I don't know. I think it's just something more to do with eternal beings, like humans than it does to do with relationships is what I'm trying to say, than it does with, temporal temporary. Things like films because frankly they're just not as important as relationships. That's why we make films because we're trying to reflect life and relationships and the human experience in a way that connects us with people. it, if we are fixated on the means, then we'll be making movies about movies because that's our only passion. and then ultimately we've kind of missed the Mark again,  making art about art is great for practitioners, but it doesn't really speak to the layman. 
Anna Thalman: [00:29:51] Yeah. So it's kind of a fine line between, believing that one is more important, knowing what that is, knowing your why and the real [00:30:00] end goal, not just the means to an end and also not caring about it too much, not being attached to it too much where, it becomes more important in the way that you're spending your time or your actions. It's sort of a, I feel like the middle is. Film is important. Family's more important and I can have both 
Kent Thalman: [00:30:21] and identifying your purpose helps you recognize how to prioritize those things. Like we explained film as a means to provide for a family, for example. film is a means to connect with people across the world, share stories that we feel are important and strengthen people. We're serving people, we're working with people we're providing for people, human beings. so I think that's really, that's a profound conclusion. I feel like, what you just said, honey. so yeah, hopefully these have. Helped place everything in some sort of a relationship in your mind and maybe, we explained it well or not, but hopefully it's at least stirred up some thoughts, feel free to share your own thoughts, comment or email [00:31:00] us. And we'd love to hear, what you're thinking.
Anna Thalman: [00:31:03] Yeah. Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you're learning on the podcast, we always love a referral or review. Do someone a favor, some filmmaker in your life who could use this, benefit from the tools and tips and pass it along. And if you want to go deeper, if you want to work, one-on-one with me, 2021 could be the year that things really change for you. And I know there's something you want badly, that you're having a hard time getting, and I can help. I'm going to teach you the tools you need to realize your goal, whether it's. Writing that feature film, screenplay that you just haven't been able to get written. Maybe you have a movie you're trying to get funded, or maybe you just want some more time with yourself or for your family, whatever it is. Shoot me an email and we can set up a free consultation. I'd love to hear what your goals are and show you. What's holding you back so we can knock [00:32:00] down the barriers together and we'll see you next time. 
Kent Thalman: [00:32:03] Thanks for listening. Bye 
Anna Thalman: [00:32:04] bye.