Ep. 42 - Mental Health with Kristen Jensen

Mental Health with Kristen Jensen

[00:00:00] Anna Thalman: [00:00:00] All right, Kristin, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I'm so excited to have you on, Unfortunately Kent is not here tonight, so just you and me, but that's probably good. Cause we always talk too much when there's too many people so 

[00:00:14] Kristen Jensen: [00:00:14] I can't wait to meet him though. 

[00:00:16] Anna Thalman: [00:00:16] Yeah, I know. It'll still happen when you come out to Georgia. 

[00:00:20] Kristen Jensen: [00:00:20] Yes. Hopefully. 

[00:00:21] Anna Thalman: [00:00:21] Yes. Okay. So kristin is an actress, I think, first and foremost, an actress, right? 

[00:00:31] Kristen Jensen: [00:00:31] I would say so. Yeah. That's what I've been doing the longest. Yeah, 

[00:00:34] Anna Thalman: [00:00:34] yeah, yeah. And a beautiful actress and really good at it too. And she recently moved into directing. I met you at a film festival and you had directed your short Lumeria and I just remember seeing you on the stage and you were so full of energy and you answered all the questions beautifully and. I was like, I want to be like her. She's so [00:01:00] cool. 

[00:01:00] Kristen Jensen: [00:01:00] And I thought the same thing about you. I remember going up to the stage you had already talked and I just had to grab your shirt and say, let's talk after. I didn't want you to leave. And then red carpet stuff after you, luckily came back and talked to me because you can get swept up in all the pictures and everything, but I was so glad cause that's where we connected.

[00:01:22] Anna Thalman: [00:01:22] Yeah, I do remember that. I thought that was after you spoke. But maybe it was before 

[00:01:27] Kristen Jensen: [00:01:27] it was right before I was on my way up to the stage and the grabbed your shirt and I was like let's talk after. 

[00:01:32] Anna Thalman: [00:01:32] Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I could tell I was that we were going to be friends at that moment. so what, inspired you to move into directing? Cause that was one that you directed and I know that now you're writing a feature version of it. So what kind of inspired that move? 

[00:01:50] Kristen Jensen: [00:01:50] I think there's a couple things. So as a creative, just having control over your own stories, I think [00:02:00] eventually he falls into a lot of actors minds. They want to tell their own stories, even though I didn't act in this one, it's a story that when I was younger, I did picture myself as the main character, but I just grew out of that role, but I still wanted to tell the story so bad. It was All about telling that story. And so I started with a short, because it was manageable to me and it was a proof of concept for the feature, which I hope to create. 

[00:02:28] Anna Thalman: [00:02:28] Yeah. It was an excellent short, , was that your directing debut? 

[00:02:32] Kristen Jensen: [00:02:32] It was. yeah. I mean, it's like, what do you really classify as that though? I mean, it's like, do you call directing something on your phone, your directorial, debut . It was the most, production value. was my debut. It was my most professional thing. Yeah. 

[00:02:50] Anna Thalman: [00:02:50] Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. And what was that experience like? Was it how you expected. 

[00:02:58]Kristen Jensen: [00:02:58] Ooh. That's a good question. [00:03:00] Yes and no, no. In the sense that you kind of pick things up as you go, you're like, oh, I didn't expect this to look exactly this way. don't know if you ever do you just kind of expect to go with it? so yes and no. I mean, it, told the story I wanted to tell, but maybe not, maybe I didn't even fully realize what I wanted until I saw it. And once I saw it, then I'm like, that's it? 

[00:03:29] Anna Thalman: [00:03:29] Yeah. That is hard to do. Cause there's always the vision you have before you get on set.

[00:03:37]Kristen Jensen: [00:03:37] yeah. 

[00:03:38]Anna Thalman: [00:03:38] and then what you actually have, you know, in front of you and kind of reconciling those two can be difficult. 

[00:03:46] Kristen Jensen: [00:03:46] yeah, it was a mini film school making I'm a hands-on learner and going through the writing stage and then production. And post-production I heard a quote and I'm gonna mess [00:04:00] it up, but it's something like a good director basically can spot a good idea when it's there. It doesn't necessarily mean it came out of your head, but you know it, when you hear it, Or when you see it and sometimes it's your own, but it's being open to that collaboration. And we had some happy accidents in post-production that again, it's not how I wrote it, but I was like, that's better. 

[00:04:25] Anna Thalman: [00:04:25] That's awesome. No, I love that. I think we give directors sometimes too much credit, for all the ideas, but at the same time, it takes that perception to know which ones are good and which ones to use. 

[00:04:37] Kristen Jensen: [00:04:37] Yeah, it's a leadership position is what it is. it doesn't mean all the ideas came out of your head. 

[00:04:43] Anna Thalman: [00:04:43] Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. so now you've been writing the feature. How has that gone, 

[00:04:53] Kristen Jensen: [00:04:53] I've joined writing groups and I've done so many different approaches and I [00:05:00] have so many ideas that I'm toying around with novelizing at first, before I turn it into a feature film. So actually today I was at Barnes and noble and I picked up, Hero's journey. I'm sure you've read it, but I haven't. And I just, I'm still figuring out how I want to tell the story. I don't know how long it will take, but it's definitely always there. It's not abandoned. 

[00:05:25] Anna Thalman: [00:05:25] That's good. Yeah. Just keep playing with it. okay. So for those of you who are listening, who don't know? I, I guess I didn't quite finish my introduction of you, Kristen, So after we met, we ended up doing some coaching together. And I think that was why you pulled me aside was because I mentioned that I did coaching and then 

[00:05:46] Kristen Jensen: [00:05:46] it was like a female filmmaker. That's always hard to say who is also a coach. Are you kidding me? Yes. That's why I pulled you a side. 

[00:05:57] Anna Thalman: [00:05:57] Yeah, that was awesome. [00:06:00] so we did that together and then. You eventually went and got certified as a coach as well. And you're the only other person I know in the film industry who has gone through that same certification that I have. So I would love to talk about your journey, you know, where you were before you found coaching, you know, what your biggest takeaways were, why you loved it and. Kind of how you've ended up where you are now. So let's start with beforehand. Like, what were some of your challenges before you found coaching that maybe coaching was able to help you with. 

[00:06:36] Kristen Jensen: [00:06:36] Okay. I'm a huge mental health advocate. And coaching has been one of the main tools that have helped me manage my own mental health. And it was through listening to a podcast that I discovered coaching. And I think I had already signed up to go to the life coach school when you talked and you were like, just finishing. So it's like, we were kind of back to [00:07:00] back, But yes. just feel like the tools in coaching helped me manage my brain so much better. It, changed my life. 

[00:07:10] Anna Thalman: [00:07:10] And how did you think it compared to like therapy and other things that you had tried before? Cause I know that's something where people sometimes have a hard time knowing like which one should I do? What would help the most. 

[00:07:23] Kristen Jensen: [00:07:23] This is so loaded because I'm so passionate about it. I have so many things to say about it. I feel personally like the CT FAAR model, which is used in the type of coaching that we do is very similar. CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy. You can't call it that. And it's not exactly the same, but a lot of the concepts are the same. And it's really, when you understand that your thoughts are at the root of everything, your emotions are caused by your thoughts, not by your circumstances. And when you can start to manage your brain that way, [00:08:00] the results in your life change, astronomically. And so how it compares, I just feel like I've met with great therapists, but coaching just felt more likable. I knew how to actually change my thinking through coaching. 

[00:08:22] Anna Thalman: [00:08:22] Oh, that's interesting. So like, it was more hands-on like you can do it yourself. 

[00:08:26] Kristen Jensen: [00:08:26] Yes. Yeah. Just made more sense. I think it's kind of the same thing, but the way it's taught, made more sense to me.

[00:08:35]Anna Thalman: [00:08:35] So do you still believe in like working with a private coach or now that you know these tools so well, do you just use them yourself and coach yourself? 

[00:08:44] Kristen Jensen: [00:08:44] Oh, I think that even if you're a master at using the model, having an outside perspective is always helpful. And right now I'm actually in, I'm certified, but I'm in the second half of training where. There's a whole [00:09:00] bunch of coaches who just coach each other all the time and it's really valuable. And before I went through, you allowed me to go through your program and I loved your approach and they have a concept called holding space. It's just a very nonjudgmental, get your thoughts out and let's explore your thoughts. And feel like you were really good at that. 

[00:09:24] Anna Thalman: [00:09:24] Oh, thank you.

[00:09:25] Kristen Jensen: [00:09:25] You're Welcome.

[00:09:27]Anna Thalman: [00:09:27] Yeah, that's awesome. And so can you tell everyone what you do as a coach now? Like what your niche is cause isn't it related to mental health? 

[00:09:34] Kristen Jensen: [00:09:34] It absolutely is. Yes. so I'm trying to think of, instead of just out and saying it like how I got to the journey, but basically I have had a real struggle with my mental health and, checked myself into a hospital in 2016 and was diagnosed with bipolar two disorder. After thinking that I just had clinical depression for years and years. So I was [00:10:00] incorrectly medicated for years and years and years. And when I got out of the hospital, I kind of dedicated the rest of my life to being a voice and an advocate because there's so much shame and stigma around bipolar disorder. And so I decided that these coaching tools had helped me so much. I knew there were other people in my same boat with a diagnosis or a loved one with a diagnosis that coaching could help them. So my niche is helping others with bipolar disorder. 

[00:10:38] Anna Thalman: [00:10:38] That is awesome. And if someone wants to work with you, how would they find you? I know we will probably do this at the end, in the show notes too, but just while we're on it. 

[00:10:47]Kristen Jensen: [00:10:47] my website is kristenjensencoaching.com 

[00:10:52] Anna Thalman: [00:10:52] cool. I'll have to check that out. I haven't checked out your website yet . 

[00:10:55] Kristen Jensen: [00:10:55] Yeah. It's kind of set up like a blog. might change that later on, [00:11:00] but I mean, it's got my, socials on there and a blog and some other stuff. It actually has some artsy-fartsy stuff too. I'm like, why not just throw it all on there? 

[00:11:10] Anna Thalman: [00:11:10] Why not? Yeah. That's awesome. So, okay. So you were incorrectly diagnosed. And then you got to the point where you checked yourself into a hospital. What did that look like? what did you know, not knowing what was going on?

[00:11:27]Kristen Jensen: [00:11:27] I just didn't understand why I had been to therapy and I was taking medicine. So why was I suicidal? And it was so dark that I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to end my life, but I didn't know how to suffer that kind of pain anymore. So, is your question, what does a hospital like or what are the stories?

[00:11:52] Anna Thalman: [00:11:52] No, I guess I just meant like right before what you just explained, like when you don't know what's going on. 

[00:11:59] Kristen Jensen: [00:11:59] Yeah, 

[00:11:59] Anna Thalman: [00:11:59] what does it feel [00:12:00] like. 

[00:12:00] Kristen Jensen: [00:12:00] Having a correct diagnosis makes all the difference. I actually started my own podcast called mind matters on bipolar with KJ so long, but you can find it if you type all that in. And, talk tons about how correct medication with bipolar. Is key factor, because a lot of people go on wrong medication and have a really bad experience. And therefore they think medicine is evil, but when you find the right one, your stability is so much better. after you're at a baseline of stability, then you can implement those coaching tools. But if you can't even get to baseline, you can coach all you want, but you're not well, you're too sick to even really apply them. 

[00:12:50] Anna Thalman: [00:12:50] Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I know there's a lot of medicines and trying them can be kind of a tumultuous experience is what I've heard 

[00:12:58] Kristen Jensen: [00:12:58] it is. And it's, [00:13:00] I think having just a support system going through those years, it takes years often, is really important, made all the difference for me.

[00:13:10] Anna Thalman: [00:13:10] Hmm. Yeah, actually, I have a friend that just came to mind. I'll have to recommend her to you. cause I, can't imagine what that must feel like. 

[00:13:19]Kristen Jensen: [00:13:19] not fun. 

[00:13:21] Anna Thalman: [00:13:21] Yeah, hormones are never fun. I feel like even the small amount I've experienced with postpartum depression or just, you know, breastfeeding and like my hormones kind of fluctuating. and it's A crazy feeling. It feels out of control. Like my emotions are not, actually created by my thoughts. My body's a little bit over-reactive or 

[00:13:43]Kristen Jensen: [00:13:43] And it's hard for people who don't even have those big hormonal fluctuations to understand. Luckily, my husband is supportive because he really doesn't understand it, but he sees it. but yes, if you experienced. [00:14:00] Women lead hormones. then you can at least somewhat understand what a bipolar swing is like. 

[00:14:07] Anna Thalman: [00:14:07] Hmm. Interesting. And how would you say your husband is supportive or how could someone be supportive of a friend or a loved one who is experiencing this?

[00:14:19]Kristen Jensen: [00:14:19] There's so many ways. When I start talking about it a lot, I do get a little bit like is this emotions, or is this I don't know. because we've been married 16 years and it's not easy to go through that, and also ever since getting on lithium. that's Been like the magic for me is lithium. I haven't been in those dark, dark places, but when I've been in those dark, dark places, he, reminds me that it's okay. Not to be okay. So just being there is huge, I don't want to get into all the like suicide awareness stuff. Cause I don't even know if I know all of those [00:15:00] things are, but, there were times that like my mom would come over when Ryan couldn't be here and it's a good thing. She was parked in my driveway. Cause I, at those times might've taken off. I mean, that's how bad it got. Those were in the bad times. And since then I'm looking at my, I have not been that low. But I mean, in answer to your question, I mean, my mom would come, my husband was there and learning together what some of the symptoms and signs are, cause it can be really hard on relationships. You know, in relationships, it's something that we all have to learn how to manage and then you throw in. Some bipolar, just an extra thing, but, I mean, it's cliche to say that it makes you stronger, but it does you know once you know how to manage something. you feel Pretty awesome. When you are managing it, you're like, I'm doing pretty good, you know? 

[00:15:58]Anna Thalman: [00:15:58] Well, that makes sense. Yeah. [00:16:00] It's like, if you can do something really hard like that, 

[00:16:03] Kristen Jensen: [00:16:03] you feel proud of yourself. Yeah. 

[00:16:05] Anna Thalman: [00:16:05] And I bet for you as a coach, if you can manage your mind through that kind of thing. 

[00:16:10]Kristen Jensen: [00:16:10] I wouldn't feel like I could coach other people unless I felt like I had been through this journey of learning how to manage my own illness and then not beating myself up when I do get sick. And that's part of it. It's as humans not beating yourself up when you're not perfect 

[00:16:27] Anna Thalman: [00:16:27] yeah. Easy to say and hard to learn how to do. Yeah. So on that note, what are. Some of the takeaways that you do remember from the coaching we did together. I know it's been a while, but 

[00:16:42] Kristen Jensen: [00:16:42] I remember you did a whole survey at first of the different aspects of your life and, rate them how you're doing. And then we picked a few together and yeah, we, honed in on a couple of them. 

[00:16:57]Anna Thalman: [00:16:57] Why do you remember that? 

[00:16:58] [00:17:00] Kristen Jensen: [00:17:00] cause I'm creating my own program right now. I've just been doing some one-on-one coaching, which is just like session by session. And I feel like a program where you can kind of focus on different areas of your life. What is that even called was there a fancy name 

[00:17:15] Anna Thalman: [00:17:15] it's called the home tour now, but I don't know home tour. Cause we kind of talk about how you're you live inside your mind all the time and. our Production companies, invisible mansion production. So it's kind of like that invisible home that you live inside of and the things that you can't see, but they're there. So that's kind of where it is. 

[00:17:37] Kristen Jensen: [00:17:37] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember it's like, how's your financial life? How are your relationships? How is your creativity, all these things. And so, yeah, I just think that there's so many different facets of your life. That it's nice to have a program. to Kind of focus on one thing at a time.

[00:17:56] Anna Thalman: [00:17:56] Yeah. And what's cool is when you focus on one thing, [00:18:00] it always has a ripple effect on all the other areas. 

[00:18:03] Kristen Jensen: [00:18:03] Yeah. Like patterns. 

[00:18:05] Anna Thalman: [00:18:05] Yeah. And it's that whole idea of like, if there's a tree, you can start with any branch to get to the root. it doesn't matter where you start. You'll get there.

[00:18:14] Kristen Jensen: [00:18:14] Yeah. 

[00:18:16] Anna Thalman: [00:18:16] Cool. Anything else that you remember? I know it we were talking a bit about your screenplay that you were writing at the time. I'm trying to remember 

[00:18:25] Kristen Jensen: [00:18:25] I feel like, oh, were we coaching together before I was even on lithium? I was like in a pretty stable place, but I still, I don't think I'd found lithium yet because with bipolar you have. it's not like this clear-cut thing, but you're not always wild, whatever. It's just like, if you're in a hypomanic or manic stage, then you can be in a euthymic stage. And I think I was doing pretty well, but I think maybe working on my relationship with my mom, [00:19:00] that's what I remember working on with you.

[00:19:02] Anna Thalman: [00:19:02] I remember that a little bit. Interesting. So how was your life different after you found coaching? I know that there's also the medicine that makes a big difference, but, and especially after you went to coach training and, became a coach yourself, so you really learned this stuff in depth. What differences have you noticed?

[00:19:24]Kristen Jensen: [00:19:24] Well, it's kind of like what we were talking about before. I do feel like. With my particular illness, I have to be at a base level to apply the tools because I would hear them and sometimes I felt like, oh, like intellectually, it made a lot of sense, but I couldn't necessarily apply it until I got at. A good baseline. And once I was able to actually apply, my life just basically. It's going into emotional adulthood instead of emotional [00:20:00] childhood, you just get a lot more mature with owning up to life and not blaming people. That's the main difference. You don't blame anyone for anything but yourself and then even, even then you're gentle with yourself. You're like, oh, I'm a human. duh, I would think that thing, but is that useful? You really examine your thoughts, like, is that a useful thought? And if it's not, then you're able to explore different ones that are, 

[00:20:31] Anna Thalman: [00:20:31] yeah. I love that criteria because it's no longer like, is it true? You know, true or false is not the question because you could say, yeah, it's true. But it's not useful to keep thinking it over and over and over again. 

[00:20:45] Kristen Jensen: [00:20:45] Yeah. if it's just causing you suffering. What's the point. Yeah. 

[00:20:48] Anna Thalman: [00:20:48] Yeah. And you can always look at it a different way or just kind of change. Slight little words can make a huge difference. 

[00:20:56] Kristen Jensen: [00:20:56] Yeah. Some people think it's automatically changing a negative [00:21:00] thought to a positive thought and you can do that if it feels good. And if it feels right, but if it feels false, you don't do that. You, kind of ladder it like it's possible. And you wiggle. It's always about wiggling those unuseful thoughts. 

[00:21:14] Anna Thalman: [00:21:14] Yeah. Those ones that are really stuck in there that feel like that's just a universal truth. You kind of have to shake them up and poke some holes in them and be like, well, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, that is really useful. And it's true. Like, I think most people jump to the other extreme, like, wait, you don't want me to believe this. So you want me to believe the opposite? you can believe whatever helps you. And that's, what's so nice is that it's so personalized too, because everyone's different. The same thought might work for one person and might create the opposite emotion for someone else and be really stressful. It's not like affirmations, I'm just going to say these same affirmations and I'll get the same results. It's like, [00:22:00] no, I have to find something that works for me.

[00:22:03] Kristen Jensen: [00:22:03] It's very conscious work. So as I was doing it, I actually realized that, there's a place for everything because trauma. Deals with more unconscious things. And sometimes there's different modalities, like hypnosis, even that have helped me work with subconscious things to get to the more consciousness of the CTF AR model or coaching.

[00:22:29] Anna Thalman: [00:22:29] What do you mean by that? could you give an example 

[00:22:31] Kristen Jensen: [00:22:31] RTT or consciousness or what do you mean? 

[00:22:34] Anna Thalman: [00:22:34] Yeah, you said they're sort of subconscious. Getting them more to consciousness. And then you use the model. 

[00:22:40] Kristen Jensen: [00:22:40] Yeah, I don't know. I think maybe it's just a school of thought. so I don't claim to know the gospel truth on it, but I remember in my training at the coach school, some people had dealt with some pretty severe trauma and there are certain instances where a coach should not be dealing with that. [00:23:00] You should go to a licensed therapist or. Whatnot. And subconscious is something that you're not even really aware of. Now. Coaching can sometimes bring that to your awareness, but sometimes it can't, it's so stuck in there because it's subconscious. And I think there are other modalities like hypnosis other ones that can deal with things that you're not consciously wanting to deal with. I don't know if that that makes sense. 

[00:23:29] Anna Thalman: [00:23:29] Yeah, I'm not really. Super familiar with that. I do feel like coaching has brought up a lot of uncautious thoughts for me, but that's usually when I'm working with someone else and they just catch something I say, and they're like, wait a second. 

[00:23:43] Kristen Jensen: [00:23:43] They're like, oh, I didn't even know. I was thinking that. But when it comes to trauma, I think specifically, yeah, deep trauma. I don't think that. especially with my niche, working with people who have bipolar. I Never treat or diagnose. That is not in my scope of [00:24:00] what I do. I, , just show people their brain. They are to do with it, what they want. And usually it's very illuminating. 

[00:24:08] Anna Thalman: [00:24:08] Yeah, no, I love that about coaching. It's always your choice. What you want to do, coach is never going to tell you what to do. And There is a place for seeing a doctor or seeing a therapist or seeing someone else in conjunction or before getting into coaching. So love that. how do you feel like it's influenced your career? 

[00:24:31] Kristen Jensen: [00:24:31] Coaching, it just influences everything. again, it's, taking responsibility for things. And it doesn't mean that everything is butterflies and roses all the time, either like, oh, I've got coaching now. Everything's good. it's knowing how to manage your mind around hard things. it's been hard for me because a couple of years ago I was booking a lot of television and film [00:25:00] and I was at the top of my game. I was very lucky, especially in Utah to be working so much. And then to go from that to, I did film one feature film this year, and it was a, really a really fun one, but I, I was really, you have to have a thick skin and I was really hurt by this one that I didn't get. And coaching is what. helps me through those so-called rejections. I mean, I can consciously again say, oh, it's just that part wasn't meant for me, but someone else and say all the right things, but in here it's still like, Ugh. You know, especially over and over and over again. If you're not booking the part you start, it can take a hit on your self-esteem. And that's where I think constant coaching has really helped me stay in it. There are so many actors. Who eventually stopped doing this because they can't stomach that rejection. There's so much rejection, but I keep it here. [00:26:00] I am still, still here. So coach me Anna. 

[00:26:05] Anna Thalman: [00:26:05] No, I want to hear from you. What are the thoughts that have helped you with the rejection? 

[00:26:11]Kristen Jensen: [00:26:11] Okay. So, I mean, I started saying it and I guess it just goes a layer deeper of like, this isn't meant for you and you'll get your shot. But when I really deeply internalized that, it really never was meant for you because this is a belief that helps me and it doesn't resonate with everyone. But when I am in the mindset, that things do happen for a reason, I am more at peace. When they don't go my way, even having bipolar disorder, any tragedy or hardship, I'm like, there's something I'm supposed to learn from this. And so I would say something along those lines is what helped me come to peace with that.

[00:26:52] Anna Thalman: [00:26:52] Hmm. Yeah. I think that's beautiful. It's interesting because being on the other side a director and casting [00:27:00] people, it's really never meant personally, you know, It's not like I'm watching auditions and saying, oh no, no, no, no. no one's good enough or whatever. It's just you find that right person. And sometimes they're right, just because of ability, but sometimes they're right. Just because they look the part, you're like, well, we need someone who looks like this child's mother or who looks like, the right age or. I mean, it's really stuff that's outside of an actor's control. A lot of times. 

[00:27:33] Kristen Jensen: [00:27:33] But it can be as petty as like, oh, you look like my ex-girlfriend, I'm not hiring you. You don't know what it is, you know? And it doesn't matter. Like you might never know. You just have to let it go. 

[00:27:43] Anna Thalman: [00:27:43] Yeah. I'd like to assume that it's not usually for reasons like that, but it could be in some cases. Yeah. 

[00:27:50] Kristen Jensen: [00:27:50] Again, what is serving you? Oh yeah. I don't know. 

[00:27:54] Anna Thalman: [00:27:54] Yeah. And it could be that they said, wow, that actress did an excellent job. Yeah. I'm [00:28:00] going to keep their contact information for later and we've done that. 

[00:28:02] Kristen Jensen: [00:28:02] It does happen. Yes. I mean, I've been doing this for 20 years and you're absolutely right. even if you don't get the part, you make connections and impressions and I mean, that's a whole other topic of conversation because it's so true. It's part of the job. Yeah. 

[00:28:21]Anna Thalman: [00:28:21] Oh no, that's helpful. What else would you say to someone who's still. Maybe somewhat unfamiliar with these tools. They're just starting to learn them. And they're in the film industry and they're facing all the things we face, having to get lots of work done and sit down and work hard and keep writing that script and keep doing those auditions and keep getting rejected. What advice would you give them? 

[00:28:48] Kristen Jensen: [00:28:48] What has helped me the most and that I've been coached on a ton because I mean, I have several different coaches. It's interesting to see different coaches using the same tools and their approaches and what [00:29:00] questions they ask me. And there was this one girl that she was like, why do you love it? Or like, why do you even do it? And I thought about it. And it was because I love it because I feel like a kid coming to life, just using my imagination and what I'm actually in that zone. There's no better feeling to me. And so took away all the disappointment when I just got in that place of, that's why I do this. I love this. And if you can keep remembering why you love it, and if you love it enough, you'll keep doing it. 

[00:29:32] Anna Thalman: [00:29:32] Yeah. I think that's really powerful to remember your why, because I think a lot of people get stuck thinking, well, this is just what I do, or this is just what I have to do even about a lot of things. And that's where it's been freeing for me. A lot of coaching has taught me that. I don't have to do anything 

[00:29:49] Kristen Jensen: [00:29:49] Yeah. I love that too. Tell me I have to do something and I'm going to do the opposite. 

[00:29:56] Anna Thalman: [00:29:56] Yeah. But then you're like, I'm choosing to do everything I'm doing. So if I [00:30:00] don't like it, why do I keep doing it? And so you have to find your why or do something else. 

[00:30:08] Kristen Jensen: [00:30:08] Yes. Yes. And I don't even know how I want to segue into that. But I feel like it's useful because I think a lot of times we wanted, we think, again, that our circumstance is the cause of our pain and it's our thoughts, not our circumstance, but there is a point where it's not bad to change your circumstance, but why are you changing it? And are you doing it just to catch a feeling. Or is it just time to change the circumstance? For example, I really want to move out to Georgia too, you know, but that's not just because it's like, oh, the work is dry here in Utah. I want lots of things for my kids to experience and, we're not just jumping out there right now. My husband has some things with work that he wants to finish up in the next year or [00:31:00] two. Would I go out there right now if I could? Well, and I could, but without him, you know, well, I'm willing to wait for him, I, I don't know. I just think that it's important to understand when you're changing your circumstances, get really centered on why you're doing that first.

[00:31:17]Anna Thalman: [00:31:17] Yeah. I think that's a good point as well. It's true. Sometimes it's easier just to change the circumstance than to stay in it and keep changing your thoughts. Sometimes it's like, yeah, just go fix that thing. just go change that thing. yeah. I'm sure you could coach yourself to like it or to be okay with it. Or you could just go change it and sometimes it's outside of your control or it's something you want to stay in. You just want to enjoy it more. So, yeah. Knowing your why is always good either way. 

[00:31:47] Kristen Jensen: [00:31:47] Amen sister. 

[00:31:49]Anna Thalman: [00:31:49] All right. Well, I love all the things we've talked about. I feel like the time has flown by. Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you feel like would be beneficial? 

[00:32:00] [00:32:00] Kristen Jensen: [00:32:00] What's your favorite? I'll turn the interview around and ask you. What's your favorite aspect of coaching? 

[00:32:05] Anna Thalman: [00:32:05] Oh, good. Ah, my favorite aspect of coaching, like getting coached or coaching, 

[00:32:13]Kristen Jensen: [00:32:13] both of you want to answer. Both. Like I was thinking like when you coach, what is your favorite thing about coaching? But I'd like to hear both. 

[00:32:22] Anna Thalman: [00:32:22] Yeah. I'll start with when I coach, cause that comes quicker to mind. I think I just love the love that I feel for the people that I coach, because I think when we understand people, it allows us to love them. And so every time I coach someone, I'm always surprised because on the one hand, humans have a lot of things. We're very similar. We all operate on the model in our brains, but at the same time, our models all look so different. And so I love seeing someone's unique model and understanding them in a new way. And I just feel love when I [00:33:00] understand people. And then I feel love for like all humanity. Cause I just feel like this greater understanding towards people and this greater appreciation for the differences we have. So. I feel a lot of love when I coach and I think that's probably my favorite part about coaching. and then being coached is a little harder. it's harder to be the one getting coached to be vulnerable, to share everything, to have your weaknesses kind of pointed out. 

[00:33:34] Kristen Jensen: [00:33:34] I did that a long time ago. I have no shame anymore. you know all my faults. I have nothing to hide. 

[00:33:41] Anna Thalman: [00:33:41] Right, right. You have to get to that place, especially if you're getting coached, in front of a group or something, it's just like, here it is, this embarrassing thought that I've been having, but I'm just going to lay it out there for everyone. but then it's so worth it. And I feel like finding. I think probably my favorite part [00:34:00] about getting coached is when you find that thought that changes everything. And sometimes it's the thought that I didn't know, I was thinking, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, that has been causing me all this pain, all these results. I didn't want it, just that sneaky little thought. And sometimes it's finding the thought that you replace it with. And you're like, okay, that feels really good. I'm going to practice that thought every day and just make it part of who I am. 

[00:34:29] Kristen Jensen: [00:34:29] And that's why having a coach is good too, to remind you. Cause it's easy to say, oh, I'll just, think this new thought, but having someone check in on you. Oh for me anyways, so helpful. 

[00:34:39] Anna Thalman: [00:34:39] Oh yeah. Yeah. And I even have been having my husband check in with me and say, Hey, how are you doing? And he's been doing a little bit of coaching. He's like, I'm not very good at it, but I'll try 

[00:34:51] Kristen Jensen: [00:34:51] my husband, like yeah, our poor husbands. They have to know this. 

[00:34:58] Anna Thalman: [00:34:58] Yeah. He lets me [00:35:00] coach him, which I think is. Cool helps me feel love for him again. And he likes it a lot. And now he's coaching me too, which is fun, fun experiment. And yeah, 

[00:35:14] Kristen Jensen: [00:35:14] do you always kinda joke with each other. Like, that's a thought, that's a thought, that's just the thought. 

[00:35:18] Anna Thalman: [00:35:18] Yeah. Oh yeah. We get those arguments all the time. It's just like, okay, whatever you don't care. Do you guys argue about that stuff 

[00:35:31] Kristen Jensen: [00:35:31] we do it jokingly. yeah. And then we'll discuss if it actually hits a nerve, you know? Yeah. But we do enjoy, talking about it for sure. 

[00:35:43] Anna Thalman: [00:35:43] Yeah. And you're a mom as well. I didn't even mention. To do this with your kids at all. 

[00:35:48]Kristen Jensen: [00:35:48] Oh, I'm a mom. I thought you said. And my mom was a coach.

[00:35:51] Anna Thalman: [00:35:51] No, no, 

[00:35:53]Kristen Jensen: [00:35:53] I, yes, I am a mom. I have twin girls that are nine and do I coach them? And a son, that is six. [00:36:00] I haven't formally coached them. I think like concepts are, they're kind of. Innately, but I don't do you coach your kids? 

[00:36:10] Anna Thalman: [00:36:10] I don't coach them. They're a little young for that, but I do kind of notice when they say things and I'll point out Nope, he didn't make you mad. He didn't, she didn't, you know? Yeah. Someone else can't make you feel something. There's these little things that we say all the time and don't even realize are ingraining ideas from a young age. And so I think I try to catch those. Kent just go home. 

[00:36:37] Kristen Jensen: [00:36:37] Hi Kent, 

[00:36:39] Kent Thalman: [00:36:39] hi. Should I jump in 

[00:36:41]Kristen Jensen: [00:36:41] yeah you should jump in for the last two minutes? Yeah. give us a burst of wisdom. 

[00:36:46] Anna Thalman: [00:36:46] Yeah, we're almost done, So we were just wrapping up the podcast and we were talking about how we coach each other and jokes we make with our husbands and kids and stuff like that.

[00:36:55] Kent Thalman: [00:36:55] Oh yeah. Getting coached by your spouse is an [00:37:00] interesting. Experience . So I am an amateur uncertified coach that does my best to sort of anyway, I'm mostly getting coach training by Anna when I coach her. 

[00:37:13] Anna Thalman: [00:37:13] Yeah. That was our last session. I was like, you did all these things.

[00:37:17] Kent Thalman: [00:37:17] You're doing it. You got to change the way. Okay. Okay, honey, I'm the coach stop. Right? 

[00:37:22] Anna Thalman: [00:37:22] And then he sent me his notes after and inserted his own little comments, like. It did not take days. It only took a few minutes. I thought that was kind of funny anyway, 

[00:37:34] Kent Thalman: [00:37:34] truth into my coaching notes. 

[00:37:38] Kristen Jensen: [00:37:38] Yeah. What do you think about coaching? Is it something that like how much merit do you think is there. 

[00:37:44] Kent Thalman: [00:37:44] Oh it's all woo woo. Yeah. it's preposterous Stuff where I'm just going with the flow. I'm just kidding. No, it's, I mean, I've think from the get-go we both had the initial [00:38:00] impression of like, what does that mean? And then as we've gotten deeper I listen to a lot of podcasts from Brooke and Jody. And Anna has become certified. And I mean, we talk about this stuff like crazy. There was actually a lot of things that we'd become prepared. She had this experience actually while serving in a church service mission when she had a fortune cookie that said feelings are ideas with roots and her and her mission companion. Just had these hours long discussions on that, because it felt it was from a fortune cookie she came home and we talked about that a lot, this idea that feelings are ideas with roots and what that meant. And then we discovered the model and it was like, yeah, that's why that rang so true. but the model kind of completes that a thought feeling it's, it completes the whole model, And so, 

[00:38:55] Anna Thalman: [00:38:55] Yeah. I think a lot of, self-help books kind of get the connection between a few things. They're [00:39:00] like, oh, actions create results. Oh, your actions are motivated by your feelings. they'll get little pieces of it. Thoughts create feelings, but they don't connect it all together to this full circle model 

[00:39:12] Kent Thalman: [00:39:12] especially to a place where it becomes practical. Where like actually you can start to utilize it. I always read them and I feel super pumped. And then it creates this short wave of motivation. You read this book or whatever, and then you've got to figure out a way to be able to take your life and steer it. And that's what the full model I think does, if you use it, it takes a lot of use and that's something I'm not always that good at even weekly coaching sessions, you forget to look at the notes. Coach yourself do models every day. 

[00:39:41] Kristen Jensen: [00:39:41] that's what we were just talking about. Having a coach to hold you accountable. And we were also talking about the difference between the model and like CBT, same kind of concepts. But again, it's more practical. I think that's the word you use. and i would agree, I think CBT is amazing, but I just [00:40:00] like how easy it is to apply it. Not easy, but easy to conceptualize. 

[00:40:08] Kent Thalman: [00:40:08] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:40:09] Anna Thalman: [00:40:09] Yeah. Easy but not easy. That's that's the model for you. Okay, well, cool. Do you have any questions for Kristen? We've talked about 

[00:40:19] Kent Thalman: [00:40:19] I'm jumping in here. 

[00:40:20] Anna Thalman: [00:40:20] Let me brief you. We talked about how she is mostly an actress, but she moved into directing how we met at the film festival, mental health and wellness, and how she helps people with bipolar, with coaching as well and how it's affected your career. Kind of your before and after becoming a coach. 

[00:40:42] Kent Thalman: [00:40:42] My question is, and maybe you talked about this, but like how do you handle helping people with bipolar when we are not certified therapists? what is your opinion on that? Do you say like. are there any requirements that you give people if it's a serious, you know, if they're, struggling, do you say no? Well, you [00:41:00] also have to have this in conjunction with coaching or, maybe you talked about that already 

[00:41:05] Anna Thalman: [00:41:05] a little bit, 

[00:41:06] Kristen Jensen: [00:41:06] a little bit. but I think it's such a good, good question. Cause I was just telling Anna, like, yeah, I do not diagnose. I do not tell people what to do, but what I didn't mention is, and I'm still putting my program together is that I do, and I don't know if I'm going to have this in writing or something, but I am an advocate for being medicated and working with a psychiatrist if you have bipolar. And so I don't know if I'm going to put it in my personal practice. Like you must be seeing a doctor. To work with me. I don't know, because again, I don't tell people what medicines to take or anything like that, but I also think that to protect everyone involved, because I am a believer that medicine is the first line of care for this particular illness. It's a really important but I have had clients and that hasn't come up yet, but again, I'm still building my. [00:42:00] My program. 

[00:42:01] Kent Thalman: [00:42:01] I mean, I think you've been seeing a psychiatrist. If you're confident that you have bipolar, unless you self-diagnosed, someone probably gave you that diagnosis. And you've probably met with someone at that point. So. Maybe I'm wrong, but 

[00:42:14] Kristen Jensen: [00:42:14] Actually I was diagnosed and didn't meet with an outpatient psychiatrist for a year or two later. People still go to their general practitioner, which I think maybe could be fine. Just, I think that a psychiatrist is better to see because it's, more specialized. 

[00:42:31] Kent Thalman: [00:42:31] It's like trying to go to your practitioner, treat like cancer doesn't make any sense. they're not specialists in that particular, you know? 

[00:42:39] Kristen Jensen: [00:42:39] Yeah. I do think that, yeah. It's better to see somebody who really understands it. Well. 

[00:42:45] Kent Thalman: [00:42:45] Yeah. Cause it's a complex thing. you'd see a cardiologist, if you had a very complex heart problem, you'd see a specialist. Yeah. And it's something that's complicated. So, yeah. 

[00:42:56] Kristen Jensen: [00:42:56] It's interesting. I mean, this could go down a whole rabbit hole. [00:43:00] We don't have to go down, but my general practitioner did prescribe me a mood stabilizer instead of a antidepressant and told me that it was for atypical depression, but you go look it up and it's for bipolar. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know all the ins and outs, but when I finally did see the psychiatrist, it's like, yeah, it's bipolar. So 

[00:43:28] Anna Thalman: [00:43:28] that's confusing. Yeah. 

[00:43:29] Kristen Jensen: [00:43:29] There's a lot of different viewpoints from even doctors. I just did an episode on my own podcast about this doctor of not psychiatry. I don't even remember what she was a doctor in saying how society has got it all wrong and we need to stop calling it mental illness and it can all be managed with the brain. And I was like, well, Like that's dangerous because I am all about my management. That's why I'm a coach, but I know for myself and what we talked about earlier, that if I'm not [00:44:00] at a baseline with medicine, I can't even apply those coaching tools. 

[00:44:05]Kent Thalman: [00:44:05] Yeah. So cause you can't apply the coaching tools, because the coaching tools are based upon the premise of a healthy working brain. And so you use medication to get yourself to that baseline, like you said, And then the model becomes very efficacious. 

[00:44:17] Anna Thalman: [00:44:17] Yeah. And that's kind of how I realized I was struggling with hormonal stuff after having my first baby was that I started crying cause I stepped in a puddle and he was laughing and I was crying and I was like, no, this is really a big deal. 

[00:44:32] Kent Thalman: [00:44:32] And then she cooked, but then she was just coming to a realization about the model and she was trying to trace it, like, what is the. That's triggering all these emotions. And I said, think you're misleading yourself. I said, I don't think that there's a belief you have about that puddle that is triggering this intense, emotional reaction. I think, I think there's maybe something hormonal going on and it took her like 30 minutes after, until she was just kind of. I think you're right. 

[00:45:00] [00:44:59] Anna Thalman: [00:44:59] Once it had passed. Cause in the moment, you're just like, no, this is, yeah. It passed. I was like, Hmm, I can't really trace that one back. I don't know what that was coming from.

[00:45:15] Kent Thalman: [00:45:15] It's like, similar to, if you were to get high on a drug or get a buzz and then say, why did I feel that way? What was I thinking about that made me feel so. Inebriated like it was like, no, your liberation didn't come from your thoughts. It came from a chemical. And in this case, it's coming from maybe some sort of chemical imbalance or hormonal imbalance.

[00:45:35] Kristen Jensen: [00:45:35] It's such a good analogy. I love that. You just said that. that is clear thinking right there. My friend I'll use that 

[00:45:43] Kent Thalman: [00:45:43] it's all my medication. that helps me Think so clear. 

[00:45:47] Anna Thalman: [00:45:47] So one last question that I just thought of, I do feel like there's this stigma that everyone in LA has a shrink and like artists art, the arts and mental illness tend to go hand in [00:46:00] hand. Do you think that that's true. 

[00:46:02] Kristen Jensen: [00:46:02] I don't know, all I can speak from my own experience. And I know that it's my experience. I don't know about everyone else. 

[00:46:11] Anna Thalman: [00:46:11] Okay. Do you see any reason why that would be the case? 

[00:46:16] Kristen Jensen: [00:46:16] I think artists feel deeply or allow themselves to feel deeply. And, maybe that can get out of control. I don't know. 

[00:46:25] Anna Thalman: [00:46:25] Hmm. Yeah. That's interesting. 

[00:46:28] Kent Thalman: [00:46:28] That is interesting. 

[00:46:29] Anna Thalman: [00:46:29] I've often thought that maybe the artists we don't express ourselves as well. not always. Some people are very good at expressing themselves through words and through normal traditional modes of conversation. But I think that sometimes we can express our feelings more through a different outlet and connect with that. I don't know if that would relate, 

[00:46:51] Kent Thalman: [00:46:51] I've never related to that. I've heard so many people say that lots of filmmakers, especially they say, I feel like can communicate myself better through film than I can [00:47:00] through verbal communication. And I've, I'll be Frank in my personal experience. Film is such a big craft. I don't feel like oh yeah, I can just express myself through film. I'm like, no, I'm still wrangling this, this craft. It's bigger than me. I feel like. With articulate parents. And so I learned how to speak well, and I can express myself pretty well. And I was a pretty good writer in school. I mean, I'm not like the greatest writer ever, but I can, I can write clearly. And I actually feel really good talking it's the film is harder for me, I think there are all kinds of people. I hope there are. I hope they're all kinds of people that make art or in this case film, just because. getting that intensely diverse perspectives on things. I mean, I know some people who hardly will speak to me, they're so quiet I couldn't even talk to them like film school students. And they would put their work up on screen and it was remarkable. And I was like, so envious of them. [00:48:00] And I was like, ah, and then I tried to talk to him about it and I couldn't get anything out of them because they were, you know, they were kind of 

[00:48:07] Kristen Jensen: [00:48:07] oddballs sometimes, not all of us. Yeah. I don't know. Like stereotype. 

[00:48:15] Kent Thalman: [00:48:15] Yeah. I don't know if I can, because there's an, and then there's like the filmmakers that are like super good in a room, so to speak, they can just pitch anything, super charismatic, born leaders and their stuff's good too. It's not like, oh, and then they're a bunch of movie by committee people and executive hogwash. And it's like, no, they're totally, there's nothing invalid about their filmmaking skills. 

[00:48:37] Anna Thalman: [00:48:37] The word is part of the art form, you know, I think, especially in. It combined so many different art forms. So music and visuals and motion and rhythm and words on a page, 

[00:48:52] Kent Thalman: [00:48:52] actors are often very well-spoken should be able to speak well and directors need to be able to communicate verbally.

[00:48:58] Anna Thalman: [00:48:58] Yeah. 

[00:48:58] Kent Thalman: [00:48:58] Very, very well. 

[00:49:00] [00:49:00] Kristen Jensen: [00:49:00] What aspect of it that you're drawn to? I don't know. 

[00:49:03] Kent Thalman: [00:49:03] Yeah. It's an interesting thing. I just think people are complicated. 

[00:49:08] Anna Thalman: [00:49:08] So I like what you said, Kristen, that we feel deeply all right. Well, I think we should probably wrap up this episode and then we can hang out after and talk some more, but, Thank you so much for joining us. We will definitely put your information in the show notes for anyone who wants to work with you and can relate to exactly what you're, coaching on, which I think there's a lot of people in that boat. So I appreciate your insights. 

[00:49:37] Kristen Jensen: [00:49:37] I appreciate yours. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really actually think it's important to be talking about all this stuff. and you never know, who's listening. You even help one person through a podcast. I was that one person I know they've helped more than me, but it made all the difference. So 

[00:49:55] Anna Thalman: [00:49:55] yeah, totally true of me too. Yeah. All [00:50:00] right. 

[00:50:00] Kent Thalman: [00:50:00] Thanks Kristen. 

[00:50:01] Anna Thalman: [00:50:01] Thanks, 

[00:50:01] Kristen Jensen: [00:50:01] thank you 

[00:50:03] Anna Thalman: [00:50:03] bye..