Ep. 43 - Overcome to Become

Ep. 43 - Overcome to Become

[00:00:00] Kent Thalman: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Kent 

[00:00:01] Anna Thalman: [00:00:01] And I'm Anna 

[00:00:02]Kent Thalman: [00:00:02] and this is film and family, a podcast about feature filmmaking for professionals in the film industry with families hit subscribe to never miss an episode. 

[00:00:09] Anna Thalman: [00:00:09] Let's jump right in. Okay today, we're going to talk about becoming by overcoming and what that means. I think it's interesting how people will set goals. And especially around new years, you go around and everyone's sharing their goals and their things that they're working on. And it almost always has to do with the result that they want, or an action that they're planning to take that they think will give them certain result. what we want to talk about today is how goal setting has more to do with becoming than it does with just getting a result, becoming a person who has that result or who can get that result. Consistently, you know, if someone just gave it to you, that could happen. You know, if your [00:01:00] goal is to make a certain number of dollars and you win the lottery, that's great, you have the result, but that doesn't really mean that you know how to make that money yourself. it's not repeatable and it probably won't last, so it's like, oh, you're a millionaire for. A year or two, and then you're not anymore. Which statistically is what usually happens with people who win the lottery 

[00:01:27] Kent Thalman: [00:01:27] yeah because they haven't become anything. They didn't just become it. 

[00:01:31] Anna Thalman: [00:01:31] Yeah. They're not, they didn't become a person who knows how to handle that amount of money. I mean, or earn it again, 

[00:01:38] Kent Thalman: [00:01:38] but they weren't really millionaires, you know, they, hadn't developed any skills to earn or manage or know what to do with that wealth. And that's just one example. I mean, it's the same with anything, right. And anything can be just like given to you or thrust upon you and it doesn't instantly make you, you haven't become. The person that is able to necessarily manager [00:02:00] received that. And I, I've definitely seen that happen in my life. I think where I've had opportunities come my way and it just falls out of my hands because I just, this isn't always the case, but I think sometimes I'm just not ready, ready for it. I wish I could think of a really concrete example, but yeah. I mean, I've definitely seen. I think this applies in dating. we want so bad to have that other person like us, but maybe we're just not the person, you know, it's like we haven't become the person that they would like, that might be for better or worse, by the way. I'm not saying that we should be liked by everyone we have crushes on. but, you know, and it's the same. we give the example of money, I think in general, like career-wise it might be, you want these big opportunities and they might even come by you, but you maybe aren't totally the person who are like, It's like, without a doubt, you would be people's top choice for that job. Or like you're in the position to do the best job for that. And, and really, sometimes [00:03:00] those things just kind of slip out of our hands or, or whatever. 

[00:03:03] Anna Thalman: [00:03:03] Yeah. I think, one that comes to mind as another example is like, I see a lot of people set goals around weight loss, and you could just go have surgery and they could suck the fat right off your body. Right. they could just cut it right off your body and you would lose weight. 

[00:03:19] Kent Thalman: [00:03:19] And sometimes those are surgeries that are like eminently necessary. 

[00:03:24] Anna Thalman: [00:03:24] Yeah. Sometimes that is necessary. But someone who's just like, I want to change the weight of my body, then usually they just get it all back. and. I also am not a believer in setting goals to lose weight because I just think weight does not equate health. Sometimes like goals to have good health will have a side effect of losing weight, but not always. And what a better goal might be instead of counting calories or like trying to reach a target weight would be to become a person who's healthy. And someone who is healthy, who [00:04:00] has that result of health. Might also have other results, but it's going to be sustainable as opposed to like, you know, let me quit cutoff this way. And then. I'm still not a healthy person 

[00:04:12] Kent Thalman: [00:04:12] and that will, affect their whole body in every way, relating to health, including their brain. and a healthy person might actually even think about mental health and stress and sleep and other things that might not be as associated with things like weight loss, and whatever your body's healthiest weight is. Usually a healthy person will be at that weight. assuming everything's functioning properly. Isn't always the case, but these results usually come when you focus on becoming as opposed to just getting. Yeah. 

[00:04:48] Anna Thalman: [00:04:48] Yeah. so if you think about goals that you're working on right now, or goals that you've set in the past, I think it can be really helpful to just kind of turn it into a focus on [00:05:00] who do I want to become and . What does that person's life look like and how do they act in different situations? If you can get a really clear vision of future you, the person who has the skills that you want to have has the results that you want to have and start becoming that person. Now, practice being that person now and responding to situations you would, as you would, if you were that person, then that's going to be a great way to move forward towards that goal, because. It's all about becoming and the person who becomes that has the result naturally, because they're doing the things that people do that have that result. If that makes sense. 

[00:05:42]Kent Thalman: [00:05:42] You know, something that comes to my mind is that life isn't always fair and that sometimes the people who are best for jobs don't get them. And there are some things that are outside of our control. But on the flip side, something I've also come to realize is that the world is huge. And what I mean by that is like, it [00:06:00] used to be that if you were a celebrity, you kind of commanded this incredibly unique position, but nowadays most, not most people, but a lot of people are celebrities like YouTubers who are not household names. Will have thousands of people that very closely follow them. And even just contractors of various kinds, like, for example, shooters, for hire like DPS or whatever. They have enough people that know who they are that like some opportunities will slip by, but like the world is so full of demand for so many things that when you get really good at something, especially if you get to be at the top of your sort of peers, There's just so much work that it's like, yeah. Some opportunities will slip by some unfair things will happen and some opportunities will be foreclosed against you because of reasons that are totally inappropriate, whether it's, because of your race or because of your [00:07:00] religion or because of your gender. but I really do believe that it's just, when we become. This discussion that we're having, when we become what it is we want to become, the results will come into our lives. it might take some time. It might feel like it takes longer than it should. Quote unquote, But really, I don't think it does. I think that when we focus more on becoming, then it happens when it needs to, when we, when we truly are able to give the value that people need. we start to get those results, whether that's career related or totally unrelated to career. 

[00:07:31] Anna Thalman: [00:07:31] Yeah. And I think we often don't actually know what that person is who that person. That we're going to become are meant to become. I think sometimes we see someone else and think, oh, I, I want to be like that person, but your journey is going to be unique. And often people find as they look back that their greatest problem, their greatest struggle had a lot to do with their purpose, their unique. Way that they could help people because when they finally [00:08:00] learned to overcome that struggle, that obstacle, they could then turn around and help other people who were in the same situation or a similar situation, or share something unique that not most people would know about because of the journey that they've gone on. And so I think that often our struggles come to define who we become and become crucial. To us becoming the people we become. 

[00:08:27]Kent Thalman: [00:08:27] And that can also be really to other people's struggles. I think that when we go into an industry or we start to guide our lives and we look at the world and what we want to see change in the world, we might see needs not just in our own lives or in our own struggles, but in other people's lives, we might see a huge market for something. Not because we're out looking to make a big buck, but because we're. I don't know we're perceptive to people's needs. And so it's that thing about focusing less on getting, opens our minds up to the [00:09:00] needs of others. And I've been thinking a lot about, Russell M. Nelson, who is a renowned heart surgeon, back in like the fifties and sixties, he was developing heart surgery and really before he was even a practicing surgeon. He was working on research teams and they were developing the first heart-lung machine or something that oxygenates and maintains blood flow to the heart. or to the body, I guess, while the heart is shut down so they can actually operate on it. Cause he can't operate on a pulsing beating heart. And that was one of the biggest obstacles to even performing heart surgery, which back then they thought, if you touched a human heart, it would cease to beat. And he didn't go into that because of a personal struggle he had with heart disease. He was a very healthy person, but he noticed these needs in the world. You know, the biggest one being one of the biggest leading causes of death in the world. And it still is today is heart failure, heart disease. And. [00:10:00] No one could do anything at the time about it. I mean, you could try and give some medicine. Maybe. I don't know what the medicines were even like back then, but they just couldn't operate on the human heart. And sometimes operation was the only solution, but it wasn't even a solution because it didn't exist. And so, I think that there are, times like that when we, were open to looking out in the world and not so fixated on. Copying some other celebrity and I don't mean celebrity. Like you have to be in Hollywood to be a celebrity. There are celebrities in every industry like that top CEO, that top dog, that, that amazing Insta famous mom who has a blog on something. I don't know, like there are leaders in every thing today and some of those are more visible than others, but the point is, is that when we focus too much on doing exactly what someone else has done, that's changed the world. Well, they've already done that. But when we start to look at the needs of other people needs are a revelation that [00:11:00] shows us what hasn't been done, what, what we can do that will add great value to our communities. And like Anna said, sometimes those needs can arise in our own lives and powerful ways that that awaken us to a community that we've sort of become a part of, whether that's parents of children with cancer or. Widows or widowers in certain situations or in certain stages of life, or once again, things that maybe make you a minority. I think everyone, I think all human beings are minority in some way. It's whatever it is that makes you unique, that makes you feel different. sometimes those are the things that open our eyes to the needs of others, as well as ourselves. But, rarely is there something that makes us unlike any other human being it's really the collective attributes of us, but. Every little individual attribute we have in common with somebody else in the world. I believe. 

[00:11:51] Anna Thalman: [00:11:51] Yeah. I mean, we've all heard the quote, be the change you want to see in the world. And I think that you might see that change because you wish [00:12:00] that it existed for yourself, or you might see that change because you see someone else struggling, like you said, and your wish there was something different for them. And that inspires you to. Go about and make that change happen. So that kind of leads nicely into this idea of, pioneering, or expand on that idea nicely. And I think you mentioned, leaders in every industry and you know, a lot of times now we talk about influencers, which was something I kind of. Maybe scoffed at a little bit, 

[00:12:37] Kent Thalman: [00:12:37] it's become a little platitudinal. Is that word? 

[00:12:40] Anna Thalman: [00:12:40] Well, it's sort of become this career that seems like not really a career. It's like, oh, I just want to be an influencer. I just want to be famous on social media. 

[00:12:49] Kent Thalman: [00:12:49] Well, I've heard people say that, like, I want to become an influencer and it's like in what. That makes no sense. That's like saying, 

[00:12:56] Anna Thalman: [00:12:56] like kids graduating high school. What do you want to do? I want to be like a [00:13:00] YouTube influencer or something. You're like, okay. What's the change you want to see in the world? Like what, 

[00:13:05] Kent Thalman: [00:13:05] what are you influencing? Or what are you leading? What are you? I wish I could come up with a what that's like, but it, I don't know. It's like, I want to become a driver. it's just so unspecific, you know? It's you could drive. I don't know anything. I want to become, even sometimes, you know, we grew up saying, I want to become an inventor. That's not so bad, but what exactly are you wanting to invent? And sometimes that's what we do when we make movies too. Like I want to make movies, and sometimes we go, well, can we get more specific? why, what do we want to make movies about? But influencers is particularly broad. And it's like, when you wanna do, when you grow up, I want to become a leader. It's like, you know, it's like, I don't get paid to be a leader. 

[00:13:42] Anna Thalman: [00:13:42] Well, but I think that the value that I fail to see in those who do. Do that as a career is that often they are pioneering something they are willing to be the first ones. Let's take something that's really like, I don't know, like someone who wants to [00:14:00] do beauty tutorials on YouTube. There's tons of those. Right. It's not useless. If I'm looking up a product and I'm considering buying a foundation, I might look it up on YouTube and watch someone give a review of it. Who's gone before me. They're pioneering, which isn't like a huge deal, but it does make a difference for me and other people because instead of me taking the risk of losing my money to some products that it's not going to work or. risking, you know, my own face, breaking out. If it's a product that's damaging to your skin or whatever, they take those risks, they go forward. And then they'll tell you, this made me break out like crazy. It didn't work or whatever, and kind of prevent you from running into the same problem. And I feel like I only started to understand this when I started to do it myself in certain. Yeah. You know, we made our feature film and said, we're going to make a feature film in eight hour days, and we're going to do it in a [00:15:00] different way. And we're going to try things that we don't know if they've really been tried before. We don't know how they've been tried before. If someone has tried them, I don't know where they've shared it. And so even though there were a lot of mistakes and things that went wrong, we're trying to share and be open and honest about that. So that you don't have to make the same mistakes. And so the other people who are interested in that same result can learn from us. 

[00:15:25] Kent Thalman: [00:15:25] Right? Well, and like your unique set of circumstances are truly unique. I mean they can't be replicated. So some people have definitely made movies for $25,000. And in the nineties, they made some movies for $9,000. Honestly, with inflation, it's probably about the same, but it's this no budget filmmaker that exists. But what they might not have done is, done that with their spouse. You know, in our case, they might not have done that with their kids and their spouse. They might not have done that in their own home. Like we did that very close to home. We knew this really interesting feature film. And if they did, they might not have shared it. And maybe that's not relevant for everyone, but [00:16:00] it's that thing where it's goes back to this point, I was trying to make about the world is so big. You might think, well, if I'm too specific, if I'm too personal, who on earth would think that that's interesting or relevant to them and it's. Kind of mind boggling, but there are over 7 billion people on this planet. even if only like a couple thousand of them find that really interesting or very resonant. Well, those couple thousand people are going to follow you. They're going to ask you for advice. you're going to start to network with those people and find out that you guys have a lot in common And then suddenly you find yourself in this community that is extremely cultivating because you start to find this commonality. That actually is very powerful. and so I think when you do get very, very personal and you combine, once again, all the things that make you unique, people will start to connect. You'll start to connect with people, whether that's people buying or paying to watch your films or [00:17:00] following your, whatever you're sharing or. Looking to hire you to do something else. if you're a DP or an actor or director or a writer or whatever, people start to see you for the uniqueness that you provide and the perspectives that you have, and suddenly you'll find yourself being singled out by people. And you're not just trying to copy what everyone else does and then hustle, you know, you are leading the way through a path. That someone exactly like you has never navigated before. 

[00:17:34] Anna Thalman: [00:17:34] yeah. Austin Kleon says you are. The common denominator between all the things that are interesting to you. And so, 

[00:17:41] Kent Thalman: [00:17:41] and all the things that you do, don't curate 

[00:17:43] Anna Thalman: [00:17:43] you don't have to say I'm going to be like this person. I'm going to be like this genre. I'm going to try to be a certain style. You just do all the things you like to do. And that becomes your style. It's you 

[00:17:55] Kent Thalman: [00:17:55] you are your style. You are your genre 

[00:17:57] Anna Thalman: [00:17:57] you are what is in common with all those things. 

[00:17:59] Kent Thalman: [00:17:59] Yeah. [00:18:00] but something else to think about in terms of pioneers, that jumps to my mind is, once again, this comes from the biography of Russell M. Nelson that I read recently where it says, that surgeons sometimes lose patients, but pioneering surgeons lose more. And I just found that to be really profound when I read that it seemed like such a simple, maybe obvious statement, but That's part of the price of being a pioneer that's part of the price of being an influencer or a leader is that when you walk the path first, you will have struggles and trials and even greater losses. Than the people around you or the people that will follow you

[00:18:44] Anna Thalman: [00:18:44] you lose more so that you can save more.

[00:18:46] Kent Thalman: [00:18:46] Yeah. And, and that was something that he experienced. This family with three children with the same heart defect, the first one died. They brought the second one to him and begged him to operate. He [00:19:00] recommended over and over again to not do the operation. He said that, it wouldn't work and they begged him to operate. It was that it was the child's only chance child was going to die. and he did his very best and operated in childhood. And then the state brought back a third child and said, and the same scenario, right? He said he did not recommend surgery. They begged him for it. The child was going to die. Anyway, they begged him to do anything and the child died and he collapsed on his living room floor and weeped for hours saying that he would never, ever do surgery again. And his wife at the time came to him and said, Are you done crying hours later, like in the next morning. And she says, then get up and go back to the lab. She said, uh, you, if you quit now, will make it so that other people will have to go learn the same things that, you know, in the same ways that you've learned [00:20:00] them and have the same losses you've had. So you need to go back and you need to keep going. And I just think that's really interesting. I found that more profound reading that because I've heard that story before in other contexts. but this time around, it was after we shot this film and I openly said it several times that I was never going to do this again. I said it to Anna. I said, I'm never, I don't think I'm going to make movies anymore. I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not going to do this again. And, it's just way too hard, way too hard on the family. It's not making us killer money yet. Uh, there's other things I'm doing that are actually bringing in much more money. and, the whole idea was that, how do we make films with our families? How do we do this differently? How do we make it family-friendly how do we put the burden on the production and not on the. Family. And I felt like it destroyed our family for awhile. Like I felt like for a few weeks we hated each other. Like it was super hard. and I just said, I'm never, I'm never doing this again. But then every time we said that, a day or two later, we'd [00:21:00] say what a waste. It would be to not do it again, because we've learned so much, this first go round, we know that we would learn. Well, we'd keep learning every time, but we would apply so much knowledge to the next time around. And the second time is almost always where you see the biggest rate of improvement, you know, is from your first try, your second try. And it's like running a race. I never dropped more time than I did on my second race because you know, your first race is just abysmal. . And then if all you can do is not walk. On your second time around running a long distance race, your time will drop by like minutes and your time doesn't drop by minutes. Very often. Usually you're trying to shave seconds or sometimes depending on the distance of the race, you're trying to save milliseconds. Right. and so you, you can't just try it once and say, well, I'm obviously not good at this. and if you're a pioneer, you're going to be obviously even, yeah. Good at it, even worse at it because you're just going to lose more patients. 

[00:21:58] Anna Thalman: [00:21:58] I think that keeping that in [00:22:00] mind, like remembering that you can help other people with what you've learned makes it more worth it. if you can help one person, it feels worth it, especially when you're in it. And it's super hard. And you think if I could spare one person, this pain. Totally worth it. And in today's age, it's very possible that you could spare lots of people. You know, that you could share this on a platform that could reach so many more people than otherwise. if we didn't have the internet or other resources like that. And I think it's easy when you're thinking about yourself to want to quit and to say, I'm done. I don't want to go through that again. So I'm not going to do this again, but when you're thinking about. What makes it worth it, or even if you're suffering, you know, through trial, if you're thinking about yourself, it just feels unfair and awful. But if you think you can add meaning to your trials, when you think of others, that you could help through what you're suffering and through what you've 

[00:22:58] Kent Thalman: [00:22:58] learned and just the [00:23:00] learning and growing that you yourself are doing. You know, if we're talking all about focusing on becoming as opposed to focusing on getting then even a total failure, In the light of getting is a failure, but a total failure in the light of becoming can be a huge success because total failures can help you become way more than you were before. And you can see huge personal growth and learn, you know, tons of knowledge that you couldn't have learned without going through that failure. So it's not just what you can do for others. It's what pioneering and risking and, sort of trailblazing can do for you as well. It allows you to grow in huge ways that if there was someone ahead of you just telling you all the obstacles, you might not actually grow as much or learn as much about who you are as a person, deep down as you would, if you had a perfect roadmap, which. In some ways, there are lots of people [00:24:00] that invest in us and help us and guide us. And in some ways, all of us will have to be pioneers in some way. So, I think that's what makes this topic universal. It reminds me that like, you know, in Christianity, the doctrine is that Jesus Christ was the infinite ultimate pioneer and that he. Was the first to overcome death. So the resurrection could come to everyone and he did that by doing something that nobody else could have done, but him, as the literal son of God. And so he somehow in comprehensively suffered for all the pains and sins of all mankind and then died on the cross. So if that's the case, wouldn't that mean that. This life would be super easy for the rest of us. Like, oh, sin, no problem, you know, pain, death, like, we're all just going to kind of just walk these easy steps and like check everything off the list because Jesus already did this. And he's like, Hey, here's [00:25:00] a life GPS and you just follow it and everything will be perfect. But people who do their very best to do exactly what Jesus says do not have perfect easy lives. And so. That's not part of the plan and that's not part of the promise, you know, it's, 

[00:25:15] Anna Thalman: [00:25:15] it's not about avoiding pain. It's really about having the skills to overcome the things that will happen because there will always be suffering. There will always be difficulty in life and that's good because it allows us to progress and grow. And really that's innate in our human nature to want progress, to want growth. 

[00:25:36] Kent Thalman: [00:25:36] And that progress becomes universal or human because. It's not about them having an easier life or anything. It's about being able to stand on the shoulders of those previous pioneers and then pioneering in new ways. so I guess my point is that everyone has to become they don't have to, but if we want to become something as opposed to just get something, We have to learn to pioneer, and if we want to get [00:26:00] something, usually we have to become, right. So, 

[00:26:03] Anna Thalman: [00:26:03] yeah, even if you have an example to help you in one way, it's helpful, but you still have your own unique circumstances and challenges and other obstacles that that person probably hasn't faced that you'll have to face. but the beautiful thing about Christ, who is the ultimate example of this is that he, chose to condescend below all to experience all pain and suffering. Sorrow just so that he could help us because that is what brought him joy and allowed him to progress and be able to do more than he could do before, because he could perfectly understand and guide us and help us develop the skills we need to overcome all things that we will face in our life because he literally overcame all things that anyone will ever face ever. so I think that that is beautiful, that he would choose that suffering. In order to grow and in order to, you know, even as a perfect being to grow in his capacity for [00:27:00] empathy and, and love and his ability to assist us. 

[00:27:04] Kent Thalman: [00:27:04] Yeah. I feel like, in like manner, you, you had some thoughts on obstacles. so I think we've, talked pretty in depth about, The need to become in order to reach certain goals. and one of the sort of how's moving from the, the why and the, what this, how, and, and I think that sometimes we see obstacles as, I guess, at face value that they're obstacles, right? that they're in the way 

[00:27:33]Anna Thalman: [00:27:33] they're inherently frustrating because they're between you and your goal. 

[00:27:37] Kent Thalman: [00:27:37] But I think what's interesting about the phrase in the way is that. They're a dead giveaway, right? They're a dead giveaway of the way. So, so if they're in the way, then you can say, oh, well this is the way to my becoming in my achieving and getting the results that I want in my life. and you can kind of follow those obstacles, like breadcrumbs [00:28:00] straight there. The problem is, is that most of us inherently instinctively. Our subconscious immediately sees obstacles and says, how do I get around or avoid that obstacle? When the obstacle is like a freeway straight to your destination, it's not an easy freeway. It's like a really, really badly maintained. Atlanta freeway. just kidding. I don't want to dog on the wonderful infrastructure and the people who work hard to keep our roads working in Atlanta, 

[00:28:28] Anna Thalman: [00:28:28] if you try to avoid made the obstacle, you start heading in a different direction, like away from your goal, because there's you, and there's your goal. And in between that there will be obstacles. Otherwise you'd be there. Right? The only thing in between you and your goal are the obstacles. And any other way is going to take you away from that goal. And there's still going to be obstacles everywhere, 

[00:28:51] Kent Thalman: [00:28:51] right? You're just facing obstacles that are in the way of a different destination, but I just think that's so profound. The reason I think it's so profound is because I [00:29:00] see everybody, doing this in the film industry, almost everybody, I see tons of young people. They're like, I'm going to do this thing on the side. Like I want to be a DP. So I'm just going to AC for a really long time. I know a lot of people who. Super techie. Long-term professional, ACS, nothing wrong with that. They're really good at their job. And they're totally overlooked technical position that happens on filmmaking and we need AC's , but the path to becoming an excellent, wonderful, productive AC, which we need is not the path necessarily to becoming a DP. Now it's not invaluable experience. And I'm not saying you should never AC if you want to DP. But if you want to DP you do need to DP AC sometimes and DP sometimes, so that you can actually be DPing, same with directing. Some people want to do, everything but direct before the direct. 

[00:29:54] Anna Thalman: [00:29:54] or even totally side things, they're like, I'm going to start. this Side business that's completely [00:30:00] unrelated so that I can make more money. Cause that's what I need to make a film or so I can free up more time to be able to make a film when really it's like the, you can find a way to overcome that obstacle without going to a totally different destination. Now, maybe that's the way you overcome that obstacle, but often you might get headed down that road and forget where you were going 

[00:30:22] Kent Thalman: [00:30:22] well, and not just that, but. The danger isn't necessarily in having a plan that takes an interesting road. like I said, a seeing is not going to ruin your cinematography career. it could be a totally valid thing. waiting tables are starting site, starting side businesses are getting some cashflow is also not going to ruin your film career. And sometimes that might be exactly what you need to do at a given point in your life. The problem is, is that sometimes in our brains, what we're doing, because the how doesn't really matter as much. The problem is, is that in our brains, overdoing is we're not giving ourselves permission to do a thing [00:31:00] that we really want to do. And we make up rules for ourselves and say, we have to do these other prerequisites first, which. Might be totally fictional. We might just be making those things up, we're just pretending almost, you know, but we, just, aren't willing to give ourselves permission to do that other thing, because we're afraid of looking like fools or being ridiculous or, or being judged or what other people will think or what we'll think, or, or even just making a film that just does not meet the standards that we want it to meet. But making a film that doesn't meet the standards that you want it to meet is usually the actual prerequisite to making. Films. And sometimes we look at young people and think that there's prodigies or proteges, you know, I guess prodigies better word. And I think that a lot of thought leaders in this particular field are starting to call that out. They're starting to say, listen, Damon Chazelle's first film was not whiplash. Some people think it was. But he [00:32:00] wrote tons of scripts for hire. He made a short version of it. He made guy in Madeline on a park bench. Before that he went to Harvard and studied film and he probably made other random film projects all growing up before all of that, Spielberg made tons of short films in high school with his friends and made all sorts of random stuff. And then he worked on the studio lot and he pursued a film degree for a while. He did all sorts of things that prepared him for his first feature, which was not a masterpiece. And he did a lot of television episodes. He did a first feature. I think he even did a, he did a television feature and then at theatricalfeature, and then he did jaws, you know, so at the time we got to jaws and you're like, where'd this 27 year old come out of how did he come out of nowhere and make the biggest hit of all time at the time? Well, he came out of, I don't know, film school and experience. Law and a couple of feature films and a bunch of television episodes and a bunch of random, bad, short films with his friends in high school. Like he came from the same place everyone comes from, he just did it a little faster and it was a little more focused than other people. And he actually happened [00:33:00] to get some opportunities at the right time and the right place. And that's fine. 

[00:33:04] Anna Thalman: [00:33:04] Well, and again, like your unique obstacle and your unique way of overcoming, it will become kind of your legacy. Like, Tangerine was filmed on a phone. Yeah. And everyone has a phone. Everyone has access to a phone these days or something else, someone with a phone. So 

[00:33:19] Kent Thalman: [00:33:19] everyone had a phone when he made that movie. 

[00:33:21] Anna Thalman: [00:33:21] We all have cameras now, right? Yeah. You can't use that as an excuse of like, I don't have a camera yet. You have a camera. You can make a film, 

[00:33:29] Kent Thalman: [00:33:29] but the guy who made Tangerine is pretty much known for that. Now 

[00:33:32] Anna Thalman: [00:33:32] he is known for that. Everyone mentions Tangerine. I mean, other people's made stuff on phones. Damien Chazelle actually made a commercial on an iPhone for apple and it was good. But 

[00:33:43] Kent Thalman: [00:33:43] Steven Soderbergh has made, I think at least two feature films now entirely shot on the iPhone. You can tell they were shot on the iPhone, 

[00:33:50] Anna Thalman: [00:33:50] but everyone cites that director who did Tangerine, which, you know, He was maybe the first and that I know of 

[00:33:57] Kent Thalman: [00:33:57] well and here's the point is that it was his first film [00:34:00] that I know of. I should fact fact check us, maybe we're wrong, but he didn't shoot his next film on the iPhone before the Florida project was not directed on, were not shot, I mean, on an iPhone. And so really some things are gimmicky, but he really did it because I'm assuming, because that's, that's how he decided to allocate his resources. He didn't put all of his money into a camera. He just used his iPhone and he told a story that was really compelling and interesting to people. And so it got into Sundance and started his career. And so those obstacles, yeah, I like that, that your unique obstacles are what kind of define you and your style and, and 

[00:34:36] Anna Thalman: [00:34:36] even how you overcome them, because maybe that's not a unique obstacle, but how you decide to move forward and make it happen anyway, might be unique. You know, even for us like making our film, we used our kids and we used our house. And that's probably not totally unique, but like our neighborhood, it's what we had. And the film will be totally unique because. Well, it's our family and our house and our [00:35:00] neighborhood. 

[00:35:00] Kent Thalman: [00:35:00] And it's narratively. It's not autobiographical, but we usually have a toe or maybe a whole foot in autobiography. When we write fiction scripts like this, like you have to make it personal somehow. Well, and some filmmakers are very metaphorical or they stay clear of autobiography. Some are super autobiographical. I don't know where we fit in. Does that parent into that? Or like spectrum or whatever, but this particular film is not autobiography, but there are elements that we're just robbing from ourselves from our lives. And we just used our life almost as the resource, which is probably why it was so painful to make the movie, but, um, and maybe not the healthiest way to make films, but yeah, those are unique solutions to unique obstacles that we faced. Yeah. 

[00:35:45] Anna Thalman: [00:35:45] So what I want you to maybe get away from this episode is just. To embrace the obstacles to see them as actually the stepping stones to the thing that you want to becoming the person you want to become. [00:36:00] Because when you can start equipping yourself with the skills to overcome your obstacles, you become the person who can overcome all the obstacles who has the result, who knows how to get it. No matter what comes up and you kind of find your unique way of doing that, your purpose. And so instead of trying to avoid them or find an easier way, you know, focus on like, what are my obstacles, I'm going to stare them in the face and exercise my creativity to overcome this obstacle in the way that's seems best for me and my resources. And then let that be your legacy. 

[00:36:38]Kent Thalman: [00:36:38] Well, I think that about wraps this up and I feel strongly about everything that Anna has kind of led this discussion. I feel like, but yeah, I really appreciate, I think I needed to take some time today to think about some of these things. but I'm seeing them happen in our own lives and, it is. A constant source of discomfort sometimes [00:37:00] to kind of face these obstacles and face what it is that you know, you need to become in order to accomplish what it is, you know, you want to accomplish in your life. but that's, you know, as Mr. Roger says, it's not easy to keep trying, but it's one good way to grow. So that's it for today If you like what you're hearing on the podcast, you'll love our weekly email

[00:37:22]Anna Thalman: [00:37:22] click subscribe in the show notes to stay up to date on the latest opportunities and resources we have available and see you there thanks. See you next time. 

[00:37:32] Kent Thalman: [00:37:32] Bye.