Speaker 1: 0:34

um, so I was saying that I've only seen trailers, but like instantly, I could wait. Why don't you?

Speaker 2: 0:41

introduce what?

Speaker 1: 0:43

oh okay, you don't want to just jump right into this? No, I mean I will.

Speaker 2: 0:46

You can just start with like who are we? What are we?

Speaker 1: 0:49

talking about everyone's different. Anyway, episode 103, and we're still figuring out. Welcome to the Film and Family Podcast. We have Josh and it's Jesse.

Speaker 4: 1:06

You can call me Jesse.

Speaker 1: 1:07

People call me Jessica, that's the name, okay so, josh and Jessica, I could mess that up Jordan and the filmmakers behind their first film was this World Won't Break, and the new film that is yet to be gracing the world is El Tonto Pro Cristo, and I don't know how to say that, because if I say it with a correct accent, it sounds pretentious, and if I say it with a gringo accent, it sounds gringo.

Speaker 3: 1:38

Yes, I like the fact that even just the title alone gets people nervous, you know. Yeah, so you know we live in Dallas, texas, and so everything's so Tex-Mex here, and I've always it's always been in my, in my work, and so I was like altanto procristo was jess, she goes, you should just call it that, because once it sticks, it sticks. It sounds awkward at first, it's. We always say, like you know, like the band, the flaming lips, what a weird name for a band, but like I couldn't imagine them being called anything now, it's just normal, you say it.

Speaker 4: 2:12

You don't think of how strange it actually is, so yeah, yeah. A little more intrigue.

Speaker 1: 2:19

Even like Star Wars. What sounds more campy than the words Star Wars, which has virtually nothing to do with anything in that story Other than I guess it's like a galactic. Yeah, there's some war battles, I guess, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 2:35

it just is like yeah, you hear star wars and you hear the music yeah yeah, and it's stuck.

Speaker 1: 2:41

It's like it's entirely normal, like you said, like none of us question it.

Speaker 3: 2:44

So yeah, and I think in this day and age it's also really good. There's so much noise and so many things coming out, which is a positive thing, but to have something like el tanto for cristo, you're not going to get confused. You know, it's like some people have films like I had to think out of. There's a film called the island, which is an orthodox film, but if you type it, if you google the island, it could be you get lost yeah, or it could just be an island yeah and there's scorsese's uh shutter island, but you know, it's just kind of, it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 3: 3:14

So I'll talk to Procristo. We looked and there's not one, so we're good.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I don't know, I don't always do all my Google due diligence, but typically we try to yeah yeah. So the two of us, we find it zero percent strange because we're both fluent in Spanish. However, what I found striking about the film itself well, first of all, I was immediately impressed. I came across your guys' work through your interview with Alex Ferrari, and what struck me in that interview and later I looked at your trailer for that film was I was like oh okay, so these guys are making films. They're a lot like us, that they're they're doing this on a very indie, outside of the Hollywood system way.

Speaker 1: 4:02

But you're, you're not like chums. Like your stuff looks and feels it doesn't just like OK, it has good cinematography. Sometimes that's hard. Like looks professional, sounds professional, that's congratulations already Right. But then, like that's a frustrating feedback when I get that from like even distributors, they're like we watched your trailer, we have no interest in watching your film, but we'll sell it. But it looks like you guys mixed it and graded it correctly and it's like wow, thank you, did you like care about the story or whatever.

Speaker 1: 4:37

But like it looks like you guys are making films that are, um, they're existential, they're character-based, they're spiritual um thoughtful, artistic, yeah and so I'm like, okay, I'm interested in these artists mainly, and, and so when I saw that you were making this orthodox film about an old guy and it's called Fool for Christ, right, and I'm like, okay, but I know what it might be and I know what it probably won't be, because I know what kind of films you guys are making, you're not making like, I don't know if you call it mainstream. You're not making like niche, um, like evangelical cinema. That um has a certain some unfortunate stigmas, right, um, it's, it's this very specific thing that's associated with a very specific religious tradition and I'm like, super into that. Um, we've wondered for a long time why, why do do it way better than us? Like, like, like, we can't even touch movies like on the big scale, like fiddler on the roof, on the small scale, like if you haven't seen that that's an israeli film, that's really cool. And I'm like, why, why are like? Why?

Speaker 1: 5:49

do ours feel like commercials for our church and theirs feel like stories about humans, you know and it's. And so when I see what you guys are doing, I'm like, okay, you're getting so tight and specific about a very unique experience. Like an older gentleman who's renounced like public life and it's through an orthodox tradition, I'm like, oh, now I'm gonna go do like an experience that's really unique. So I'm I'm really excited about your film.

Speaker 3: 6:16

Yeah, Thank you, Thank you. Yeah, I think that's. Do you want to talk on the reason for El Tonto for Cristo, Of why it's like we always say you know, when you scan the radio station, if you're traveling, you're to rent a car and you scan the station and it stops on something and you hear like a couple notes and maybe just something about blowing in the wind or something. You're like that's a Christian radio station and you know it.

Speaker 3: 6:40

And if you're skimming through the TVs, it was kind of the same way. And you know, I I grew up, my dad was a he still is an evangelical pastor and he was an evangelist on the road, and so orthodoxy could not be farther from that and it's. You know, we've been orthodox for almost 11 years and I still don't feel orthodox enough to make this film. Um, but I knew I needed to, because I was distracted at times during our divine liturgy I'm not paying attention, I was looking at all the iconography going. What story can I tell? I just told it from my perspective about it's about humanity, it's not about religion per se, and there's nothing she warned in. I don't know what would you say.

Speaker 4: 7:26

Well, it's a. I think that was one of our personal experiences in the conversion process. For us, from being having been raised, um, you know, evangelical, non-denominational, there was a pivotal point in our, in our spiritual life that led us to the Orthodox church and through that, one of the biggest differences is it's so interesting because I, um, I'm, I'm a yoga instructor, you know that's, I've done that for many years and so I understood enough.

Speaker 4: 8:01

Enough of Eastern like thought, and it's way different than Western. But I understood enough to not take what Westerners might put as face value and be like and sum it up to an an optimal knowing about something. So when we actually got to um, we, when we attended St Seraphim, which is here in Dallas for the first time, and our boys, you know, they're in their twenties now. This was 11 years ago, so minus 11 years, they're much younger I was like, okay, how do I tell them what we're about to experience in a way they would understand? And so I remember saying to them okay, pretend we're going to Indiana Jones church just because it's so ancient and it's in everything. But my point in this is that it's all happening, with or without you, like it's been happening since the time of Christ. With or without you, there's no, you know, there's not a high point homily, there's not a big um emotional worship service, but everything is so chock full of meaning. And so then when you start participating and like what josh said, even through this process, we're, like, we're not academic intellectuals. You know, I am an entrepreneur and josh is a filmmaker. You know, his art, artistry and creativity meets my creative entrepreneurship and you know artistry and that's how we collaborate. So, but we did as we, as we are, and if we become, and are still becoming, orthodox Christian, working out our faith and fear and trembling, you know, is what we really realized is, oh, this is a lifestyle, this is not a and you know, I would say, probably most people in the Christian faith would say, oh, it's a lifestyle, it's relationship, but I don't think you realize it until you are participating in the Orthodox Church. It is something you are becoming and constantly becoming, and so this inner transformation was something that we saw.

Speaker 4: 9:54

And what's very interesting is I would see that in my yoga students I got a very indie yoga space. It was like vinyasa flow to indie music type of a situation. But what I did see was, while it's not a team sport, people would come, they enjoyed being together, working out their junk on the mat. Maybe it was mental clarity or better health. Some of them were swapping something positive for addictions that they had, but they were doing it together, but it was really an individual practice for them. That's a very Eastern way of approaching your health, be it spiritual health, like any type of health. So what we saw, was this thing begin to transform our lives individually, you know, and the sacramental life of the church.

Speaker 4: 10:38

And we begin to see this growth in Texas. And which is very interesting, it's Texas, first of all, the Bible Belt, and then you see this very counterculture way approaching a faith that most are familiar with, at least in some capacity if you live in the United States, that most are familiar with at least in some capacity if you live in the United States. And then we, as we've grown and learned, and then Josh, of course, he did a lot of research, we took a pilgrimage to San Francisco, and that's a whole other story. And he started to gather these stories and to write it into the singular narrative. While it's fictional, the story is true, it's taken from true accounts from time, written into this one figure at this mythical monastery on the coast of Texas. But it's very interesting taking these Eastern traditions into Texas that has a culture all of its own anyway, you know, and then making it into this story, because now we've seen as it's growing so much as people seem to be in the West looking for something that has some significant roots. I mean it's very interesting because this is now, it's this fusion of what already has been happening in the faith.

Speaker 4: 11:48

And then you know cultural type things, because we live in Texas and it is Tex-Mex and, and so, and then Josh's unique take on storytelling which, when you watch this world won't break, and then you heard the story about this world won't break, and when you eventually do see El Tanto Procristo, you can definitely go oh, I mean, you'll see their different stories. But you're like, oh, there's, there's something very Josh David Jordan in the way that he does his film work and and I love it so much. You know, I get to co-create in the sense of like we discuss and I'll add ideas and we are, you know, companions in the whole process and everything. But the storytelling through Josh's lens is so unique. You know we have future scripts too, so which are different than this, but we're really excited to bring this, even if it's, you know, for yourself, like as film lovers, as people that want something that is not just cinematically beautiful and has strong performances and music, et cetera, but there's a storyline, but also something that's fresh and new.

Speaker 4: 12:50

There's so many remakes of films and you're like, why aren't we telling original stories? You know what? And there's probably multiple reasons for that. But we do live in a day and age where you can bypass that, like yourselves. You know where you can say this is what I'm doing and you can make it, and I've just talked way too long.

Speaker 3: 13:09

So I think they're muted. I don't think I can hear you guys. I think you're muted. I don't think I can hear you guys, I think you're muted Maybe.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Is it on mine Can?

Speaker 3: 13:25

you hear us now? Yeah, oops, no, we heard you the whole time. That was just when, just now.

Speaker 1: 13:29

Yeah, so what sounds like to me is like it's an Eastern Western, you know it's Eastern Western and it's like it's an eastern western. You know it's eastern western and it's and it's so cool, like I mean I love that stuff and so I it's like, like you said, this really strong eastern tradition with this really strong western setting, that's. That's that's exciting.

Speaker 1: 13:48

I don't know, I think it's really exciting and it feels eastern, well, it feels almost european, which I guess you call in the middle. Uh, in its approach of like its aspect ratio, and it's black and white and it's it's more of a I don't want to label it as transcendental style because I haven't seen the film, but it definitely feels influenced by 100 percent of sort of as defined by Paul Schrader's transcendental style in cinema. Sort of as defined by Paul Schrader's transcendental style in cinema.

Speaker 3: 14:14

It's so crazy. I was, I um had the book. I didn't read it when I was making the film, just because of I don't want to be influenced too much, uh, but I'm rereading it right now and I'm like El Tonto, for Krista could be in this book, um, because I was very inspired by Bella tar um, by, uh, paula Polawowski's Ida Brisson. It just, you know, in the aspect ratio, like you said, it really is. I mean, it's European cinema, it's 1661.

Speaker 3: 14:47

We use the same lens that Tarkovsky used. It's a zoom lens, but it's from the sixties and it's humongous. We used one lens. It was humongous, but that just that glass and the way it was ancient by using, you know, digital cameras. We use the new red and it still gave it that antique look and.

Speaker 3: 15:10

But it definitely is what Paul Schrader talks about, which is slow cinema. Definitely is what Paul Schrader talks about, which is slow cinema. And as much as a lot of distributors or studios per se or people that we meet with, they're like well, it's black and white. You have a color version and, as a way to speed it up a little bit, I'm like I don't want it like everything else. I mean, I understand it coming from a business aspect. But I think that, you know, slow cinema is a treat. I can't watch it every single day. I mean I'll watch it probably once a week and it's my escape, it's my yoga, it's my meditation, because you know the the writer, director is allowing you to participate in something and not force feeding you something, and you walk away and you have like what did I just see? And I liked that feeling. A lot of people don't like that feeling. They don't like to wonder or what did that mean? Instead of you know, just you know being a part of it, yeah, yeah, well, and like there's.

Speaker 1: 16:12

you know, we tried to do this early when one of our first short films, anna watched it in its festival setting and she came back and said Kent, we are waiting long on shots but nothing interesting is happening. But we watch these movies where they have this slower approach and it's like suck you in, fascinating. We're trying to imitate that, that, but not successfully at first. Yeah, you can't just not cut, and it's like I'm making transcendental style cinema. You know, it's like it's slow. It's slow which makes it good. It's like no, it doesn't. And that's the problem with can we make it in color? Can we cut this down? What they're saying is can we take like steps 99 and 100 and 101 and just copy those? And it's like, yeah, but what about steps like one, two and three, like what was it that? Like was the germ of this? Like can we cut what makes it?

Speaker 1: 17:04

unique so that it fits into this box, that we know how to sell yeah then you lose what makes it special well, and what's interesting is, like the movie um columbus, um it, they marketed that film directly against the grain, in the sense that they were like we wanted the trailer to feel like a meditative, peaceful thing, because it would just stand out. Even on social media it would stand out and they actually did a pretty respectable theatrical run with that film and there's lots of examples of films that have done it. It's just people are scared and I think we all deal with that film and there's lots of examples of films that have done it. It's just people are scared and I think we all deal with that, even as artists. We poo-poo on the producers and the studios, right but I think even as artists, I get scared all the time I watch a movie.

Speaker 1: 17:48

And every time I watch a movie now I question in myself should I be making that? Should I be like that artist instead? And I don't even know who I am per se, quote unquote you know like, and so it's a lot of fear that I feel like I have to wait through. I don't know. Do you ever feel like, did you experience that when you were making this? Or did you feel like pretty assured, like this is what we're doing? I?

Speaker 3: 18:08

think that's the, that's what the um, that's the reason we're artists is. We should not really fully understand who we are. That's why I think cinema is so exciting. When you watch Scorsese's stuff, early on he's figuring out who he is. And I just rewatched Taxi Driver recently. I know that's very cliche, everybody knows Taxi Driver, but a lot of people said that they've seen it. And they haven't seen it and you're watching him become Martin Scorsese and there's no apologies for those films. And so I don't apologize for my earlier work, because you really don't know until you're on set, until you're in the editing room, of those mistakes. Um, no film is perfect. Of those mistakes, no film is perfect. Ron Howard said no matter what film you make or how many awards it wins, it's guaranteed to break your heart.

Speaker 2: 19:04

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:04

Because it wasn't what you had in your brain, because you guys know you make a film three times in the writing, in the filming, filming and the editing. And it's true, and with this film I'll talk to Pocristo I did something that you're not supposed to do, which is paint yourself in a corner, do one, takes no coverage, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And it worked. There's two scenes and it those. Those broke my heart. Like Ron Howard says, they broke my heart too.

Speaker 3: 19:38

It was my favorite things that I wrote, and it didn't work.

Speaker 4: 19:43

It didn't work it didn't serve the film. And they're great scenes, they're like so great and conceptually. But even I mean, even if they worked, our film is two hours and 14 minutes and while it is that transcendental style I wouldn't say, and it is slower than most people are used to, but it keeps going for two hours and 14 minutes. There's really nothing you can cut and there's definitely nothing we can add.

Speaker 3: 20:15

Yeah, yeah. The opening scene is eight and a half minutes and it's a man coming over a hill and he has a conversation at a doorstep and I wanted to let the audience know, like this is what this film is going to be like.

Speaker 4: 20:31

Yes, that's the longest situation.

Speaker 3: 20:33

so what you've done is you've scared them a bit and they think is every scene going to be this long and right? When it gets there, it goes and it moves and then the film moves really quickly, even though it's slow. It moves so fast towards the end that you are used to it going slow, so that it seems fast, even though it would be slow in most other films, I think well, and so it sounds to me like you understand what schrader was getting at from the beginning, which was he said this isn't boring cinema for boringness's sake.

Speaker 1: 21:03

Like that's not the end goal. The end goal is that you lean back so that the audience can lean in, like you said. Like you you're opening in a way that makes them all kind of go wait okay. Like I know, this is the beginning. You can get away with almost anything when it's expository at the beginning, but then, like you can't get away with that in act two and three, and and so you're, you're opening up all that aperture at the beginning, so they get sucked in and then you start to pull them in, and and I just feel like everything nowadays is like everyone talks about hooks, hooks, hook.

Speaker 2: 21:35

What's the hook?

Speaker 1: 21:38

It sounded like a Spielberg movie, and so I really, really appreciate that, because even our latest film, our doc, it definitely, like I was really trying hard to achieve some degree. I don't think it's truly a transcendental style film, but some degree of leaning always away from the audience as much as I could and when we took audiences well.

Speaker 1: 22:00

I was just gonna say audiences respond well, but there's always going to be a few people. We've we've probably shown it online to about 2000 people, yeah, and we've gotten feedback from over a hundred of them and we get mostly really positive feedback and we've gotten this like there's always been this whole faction of people that are like it is just too slow. I just think you could trim 20 minutes If you were less in love with the story. This is actually what someone said If you were less in love with the story, you could cut 20 or 30 minutes from this. And I'm like, why would we want to watch a movie made by someone who's not in love, yeah, with what it's not, obviously hopefully not like with yourself or whatever, but like, but like you know, with the characters and with what you're trying to accomplish.

Speaker 3: 22:38

Yeah, I mean, I think Tarantino was right when he says if half the audience loves your film and half the audience hates it, you've made a great movie. You made the movie If everyone likes it. You did it for a reason. If everyone hates it, it's bad. But if it's half and half and all my films, all my projects, have been like that People either love it or it's not their cup of tea.

Speaker 2: 23:02

Yes, that means you're really saying something.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Because otherwise it's just vanilla. It's not really making a statement that people can either be on board with or not.

Speaker 1: 23:10

And beyond statements. It's like a visceral experience that someone either is just going to like, regurgitate and go well, my body just rejected that Right Like, or they like, or it hits like a, like a bomb. You know, it's like whoa Like. Yeah, I love that. I've always felt, I felt very similar to that, this idea of like anything but lukewarm.

Speaker 3: 23:32

Yeah, and I think people are get it confused with cinema because they don't really know, they don't know they don't have a very big library of cinema, they maybe just have american cinema. Yeah, and that's why I'm drawn to european cinema. Um, because I think they label things pretentious when they were actually uncomfortable. And those are two different things. It can be pretentious that you held too long, but it also can be uncomfortable and they're having to work and they don't want to do that. And so they get those confused, like, oh, it's a pretentious film, like I mean, mine could not get more pretentious. It's about an Orthodox, it's black and white European cinema and they're mostly one takes, but it's what served the movie, because orthodoxy is so colorful.

Speaker 3: 24:14

My last film is just color. It's all about color. Orthodoxy is it's all about icons and color, but really it's about movement. It's the smell of the candle, it's the crying of children. There's so many different aspects and I said, well, what if I took all that away? And I mean it worked in Andrei Rublev by Tarkovsky. And people have seen the trailer and they're like, oh, this is like Tarkovsky, my way of Texas, and I'm like I think maybe it's because it's orthodoxy, it's icons and black and white, but really when?

Speaker 1: 24:51

you watch the film, it's really more like Jim Jarmusch dead man, probably. So I want to. I want to back up the conversation and ask you just quickly could you summarize, like a pitch, like what is El Tonto Procristo? Because that's the film that you guys have, and then also, once we get an idea of the basic story, without giving anything away, where is it at? Like when is it? Where is it at?

Speaker 2: 25:13

And maybe we could yeah, even jump into some of the logistics of how you guys approach filmmaking with your lifestyle and taking care of your family.

Speaker 1: 25:21

We always want to get into that, yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:25

You should preach your director's statement. Yeah, because I'm really bad at remembering things.

Speaker 2: 25:28

I know I hate being asked to picture this.

Speaker 3: 25:32

Don't make him do that, I think the log line is it's the uh, the uh. A monk on a monastery on the coast of Texas, uh, becomes an unlikely saint. What is it I?

Speaker 4: 25:44

think you should read your director's statement okay we have this thing that's happening internationally and we were, and it's not solidified but it's, it's fairly. It's very exciting, but you know it's not solidified, so it's hard to get too excited. But, um, we were asked for, josh was asked for a director director statement and he read it to me and I was like, oh, this is, this is perfect. So this is probably the best way to give this to y'all, and this is a couple of days ago.

Speaker 1: 26:13

I love it.

Speaker 3: 26:14

Um yeah, I'll just read the first part then, Cause I think that's really um they can edit it.

Speaker 3: 26:21

Yeah, for sure, I'll just read this and you guys can edit whatever you need to edit out of this long. So it's like when I first envisioned El Tanto Pro Cristo, I was captivated by the raw, mystical spirituality that emanates from Eastern Orthodoxy. As an artist, I sought to dive into a world that is profoundly unrepresented in cinema. The film, set against the stark, rugged backdrop of a Texas coastline, brings to life the intimate existence of the Orthodox monastery. Coastline brings to life the intimate existence of the Orthodox monastery. Here, amidst the relentless waves and shifting sands, we find an abbot, a soul reader, a fool for Christ, along with the men who have chosen a life of quiet devotion and contemplation.

Speaker 3: 26:57

Inspired by the likes of Bergman, bellatar and Palawowski, I aim to craft a narrative that is both deeply introspective and universally resonant. These matters of cinema have taught me that true power of film lies not in grandiose gestures but in subtle, almost impeccable moments of human existence. With Altonso Procristo, I wanted to capture the essence of a spirituality that almost feels alien to the Western audience. It is the very bedrock of much of Western faith. So yeah, if that maybe breaks it down a little bit, I love that.

Speaker 2: 27:30

Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 1: 27:34

Yeah, I'm so excited, I like it because there's some films where I watch them and they just unflinchingly approach spiritual matters in ways that I go, oh dang, I wish I'd been the one to say that, but I was too scared, like I feel all those things.

Speaker 1: 27:50

But I, just because I'm constantly so, just kind of like how orthodoxy, I think, is considered maybe a like a Christian religious minority, if that makes sense, at least in the United States Um, so you know, we're, we're members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, otherwise known as Mormons, and so we, I really identify with any film that explores like orthodoxy, uh, judaism, um, or even spirituality, in a unique way that isn't necessarily like a commercial right and so like even guys who are I think I don't know if he's catholic, he probably is um, um, terrence malick, you know and like watching movies like tree of life, where I'm like how did this guy take this movie all the way to the oscars?

Speaker 1: 28:39

Brad pitt has something to do with that, probably, but but he takes it all the way to the oscars and yet he's so boldly exploring these deeply. Yeah, there's deeply personal stuff, but there's also these deeply spiritual things. I mean he's putting like biblical verse on the screen in there. Yeah, yeah, like right off the bat, and no one was like, oh, this is just cheesy or whatever you know.

Speaker 3: 28:59

It's like yeah, he's he doing this thing with his new film is about. His new film is about Jesus, right, I mean the way of the wind and it can. Has given him an invitation every year. Sight unseen. They just want to. They want Terrence Malick there so there is. There is a need for, not Christian films, but spiritual films. There's a need for that in cinema. It's always been there, right? No, it's like. It's like the seventh seal, you know about life and death and there's a need for that in cinema.

Speaker 3: 29:26

It's always been there. It's like the seventh seal, you know about life and death and there's so much. I think someone said what was it that? If it has an agenda? Basically, jordan Peterson.

Speaker 3: 29:39

Yeah, I think it was Jordan Peterson was talking about propaganda. He doesn't like Christian propaganda films, he likes spiritual films. And I was like, oh, that's a really good way of looking at that. And I was really concerned when I made this film because I was like, is this orthodox enough for all the orthodox around the world? And I was asking people who are very high up and who are a lot more educated than me and they were like no, no, no, you should even go farther, like push the envelope for the Orthodox. So it's a weird position to be in. As a writer, director, creator is I'm trying to invite people in but also challenge people. Also stay true and not be disrespectful.

Speaker 3: 30:24

It makes cinema and making, and make cinema. And make it exciting and no apologies.

Speaker 4: 30:28

Yes.

Speaker 3: 30:30

There's no apologies, and if someone's upset by it, that was never an intention and you're always going to upset someone, that's hands down?

Speaker 1: 30:39

Well, you are, without a doubt. If you can even get them to sit down and watch the film all the way through, there's going to be some people with certain religious affiliation who are going to watch this and go. Well, that's not reflecting what I think is true and they just can't see past Like it doesn't matter. It's a it. We are trying to understand another human being's perspective on this world and their experience through that. And how like. For me, it's like exciting to watch a film, even made by someone who's maybe not even particularly religious, where they can make something, where there's a spiritual like recognition of I'm part of something so much bigger than me and and a character even coming like. Did you see the film sound of metal? Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, man, where he like he. You know the do I do I ruin the? If you haven't watched it yet, get on. You know where he takes the things out at the end and it's just literal, like, yeah, bro, volume, like, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:48

I cried in the ending of that film oh, it's just exquisite where he just sits there and it's just a few images and that's the end of the movie, and and I found that to be like a profoundly spiritual film that made no efforts to try and dig into. Um, what church does that guy go to? You know, it's like probably doesn't seem to go to any, and and I and so that's that's something ann and I've said a lot is that I think as a young young person, I was like I was a little more quote unquote evangelical, not religiously, but like my attitudinal approach to film was more evangelical in the sense that like I should really help people see things the way I see them, right, and I think that's sort of changed to be like no, I just actually want to be honest. I'm so scared to be honest, and I watch a movie like Ordette by Carl Dreyer and go, that guy laid it so bare on the table. How is that movie even possible? And yet I wish I'd made that movie.

Speaker 3: 32:42

There's a lot of. If you like Ordette, you're going to love El Tato for cristo and it was a. Some subconscious things happen. There's a scene and it happens for a split second and I was like, why does that look so familiar to me? But it was. We were on this remote beach and it was a. It was a primitive beach, vacant, and we had we had to get there by four pontoon boats, all of our gear and off the Gulf of Mexico with a seven foot coffin and it was. I was super stressed. We get there. There's no food and water. We brought a little bit but we shot this one scene and everyone's like man that was. I felt fast and me too, and then I was rewatching or death of the day, I go, oh that's why, that's uh, it's almost a mirror image the reeds, and the almost yeah

Speaker 3: 33:38

sand dunes. We have a scene that evokes it's a chef kiss, and it was never on our lookbook. It wasn't something that we discussed or talked about. It was just. Sometimes you're forced when you're making movies to go left or go right. There's no other option. You have to film and I was like let's just turn the camera here, Cause the camera was so big with the lens. We're shooting the ocean and to even do a 20 yard camera move would have taken us hours and the sand and in the sand and the platform, the camera.

Speaker 3: 34:11

So I said, just swivel it around, and we moved some logs and cleared it out and that was the shot, and that was the ordette shot yeah I'm so glad because I love that movie so much, because it makes you feel and you don't know why.

Speaker 1: 34:27

I'm telling you, like to me, like I think maybe the most powerful experience I've ever had was in any cinematic way. You know, we have like a big theater room in our house now which it's. It's, it's cool, and we've watched movies and great megaplexes and everything, and I think the most powerful experience I've ever had was sitting watching it on like a cheap 32 inch LCD that was given to us for free by, like a neighbor when we moved into our house watching, or debt for like the third time by myself, sunday night in the dark and just crying by myself and feeling like just deeply known by a power higher and bigger than me. And that's like, like, once again, like what right does that movie have to my attention? It does nothing quick, it doesn't, it's painstakingly slow and yet I find every second of it riveting.

Speaker 3: 35:25

Yeah, you know, it's so important. Just when you said or debt is how. No one knows what or debt is, but people do know. Or debt. And when you listen to different podcasts and you listen to paul thomas anderson, he drops or debt in. Or you listen to scorsese, he drops or debt in. And you know like. You know, greats know it. And cinemas, you know. You go to the Lincoln center in New York and they're playing or dead and they're doing an expose on it. That's what I strive for as an artist and a filmmaker. Obviously you want to be able to pay your bills and you do want to be successful so you can make more cinema, right. But really it's all about making something and you may not be around for it. I know that's when you tell your partner in life that I don't care.

Speaker 1: 36:15

It'll be worth it when we're dead.

Speaker 3: 36:17

My entrepreneurial wife is like, oh no, that's not how we're looking at it. But this is what happened, I said, when I made this role break. I said you know, a dream would be a kid in Germany pulls off a DVD or a Blu-ray from a library and it says this role won't break and he watches it and somehow he's transported to Deep Island, to Dallas, texas. Well, I got an email from a kid. He was not German, he was Canadian and he was 17 years old and he said he rented it from his library. This world won't break. And he's watched it several times and he goes.

Speaker 3: 36:56

All my friends ask is deep LM real? I said it's real, deep LM. It's an art district in Dallas, texas. And he goes does it take place in the eighties? I said sort of, and I was like he was just so intrigued and goes I just love this movie so much.

Speaker 3: 37:08

And I was like, wow, that's the power of cinema. Yeah, did not um play in all the theaters? And you know, it did great in the film festival world and we were at um, we were in a journey and no, we're in scotland at the glasgow film and one of our screenings was pretty thin. I was like, oh my gosh, there's no one really here. You know it kind of antsy. It was like a noon showing and a lady came out and she worked for BAFTA and she goes. I love this movie. It reminds me of Horton Foot, which is he wrote Tender Mercies with Robert Duvall and so like, in an empty theater, one lady saying that one thing made my entire trip. That's what we do, that's what we're making cinema for is you can't make everything, for that's why there's different flavors of ice cream.

Speaker 2: 37:56

You know you can't appease everyone, so right, yeah well, and it's like would you rather reach a broader audience and only like touch them for a moment and then they forget about it. Or touch, you know less people, but deeply where they can't remember. I mean even ordette. You were like I didn't remember why that shot was so familiar, because it was maybe deep in your subconscious but no longer like intentional.

Speaker 2: 38:20

And I think, yeah, there's a, there's an author in texas, austin cleon. Maybe you've heard of him, but he writes about how we are the sum of all of our influences and that the only common denominator in all of your work that you need is you. And I love that idea that, like I'm not trying to make this, you know, we can get in our heads like is this orthodox enough, like you said, or is this this enough? Is this? How are people going to respond to what I make? But I think if it's deeply personal, then there's that human level of connection, like who knows, who knows what Ordead is about? The people who connect with it on that human level for some reason or another and can't even put it into words like why? Why that resonated?

Speaker 1: 39:05

yeah. So I think we're we're pretty uh akin, uh cinematic cousins here, but the um.

Speaker 1: 39:12

But let's go back to some of the um, the boring, I guess I I'm gonna make the logistical mad at me um, the, the, the logistical stuff, the, the entrepreneurial, the, like you know, going off of piggybacking off your comment on I don't care if it makes money, and then your and then your wife faints, right, the, the, the, the, how, how are you guys doing this? Because everyone does it different, right, some people have to do this as a side hustle. Some people are managing to make it a living. Um, some people are, you know, raising money in different ways. Um, right now, I guess what's been your journey? A little bit of your journey and a little bit of your everyday now, like, um, in terms of life balance and making films how you're financing the reality.

Speaker 3: 40:01

Yeah, yeah, I mean jess can really talk about that, but I can quickly say it changes every single time. Like we said, you know you guys have young children. Ours were young when I made this roll on break younger and life was different. It was pre-epidemic pandemic, but then, because of the pandemic, I was able to hop on to a distribution company that got me into a thousand libraries and got me on, you know, online, and so that was a different avenue.

Speaker 3: 40:33

With el tanto per cristo, it's been um, the first film we made for almost nothing. You know quick story. We were at things that have things changed.

Speaker 3: 40:44

It used to be really positive that you made a film for $7,000, like Robert Rodriguez. You can't say that anymore. You can't. When you're on a podcast. You can't say the exact amount that you made your new film for, because you're going through sales and distribution and a number changes everyone's perception. You know we had made this as years ago we had made this as years ago we had made this one break. It premiered at one of the Dallas National Film Festival Best Feature and it took off and went around the world and I was so proud that I'd made it for $35,000, $36,000 over a year and a half that's minus all the end kinds because I work in the photo industry and do ad work and stuff like that, and so I was able to to borrow and trade on the scale of like $300,000 worth of locations and gear and so and talent. I'm a part of a theater company here in Dallas called the theater, and so it was just like I was writing for these people that I know.

Speaker 1: 41:48

So I forgot that about your story, but I just want to plug that. I think that's brilliant. Yeah, so many of us use actors that are like only working to try and act in film, but we're local theater. Talent is so good, so obvious, that I don't know why everyone doesn't do it your way, because I guarantee you you got great performances. Because these people all the time, all the best actors come from theater, yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:13

And the crazy thing is they're so, they're so hungry and they have. They're in the real world and also, I think, with theater actors, they do plays constantly, so they're constantly. Their skills are so sharp because if you're an actor, maybe you did a film. It hasn't come out for two or three years and no one sees that. These guys, I mean it's raw. Especially at the Okra House Theater, and Matthew Posey is the creative director there. He was in this role on break and he plays Father John. He's the lead role in El Tanto Procristo. I wrote it for him, I wrote the movie for matt, and I think that's that's one thing that you'll never be disappointed in in your, in your film is when you write for someone because you're giving them the keys to the city, right, it's, uh, you're not like, can they handle this?

Speaker 3: 43:01

You wrote it for them and you know their range, um, and also with theatrical actors, is they can? They're already here, all you have to do is have them dial it back. It's really hard sometimes for film actors to, you know, to go too amped up because they're so used to playing these um, um parts. But yeah, that was um, yeah, so, and we were talking about this, this roll on break, and there was investors and like there was Dallas money around and I'm not going to name names. But somebody goes what's your next film? I was like, oh, you know, we have this going on, they go. Would you need the same amount you did for your last film? What was that? Like two, 3 million. And we were like this was not. We didn't know that. You weren't supposed to say no, we didn't make it for two, three million, I made it for $36,000 in the whole. Like one person walked away and then the whole room changed. I mean it was like.

Speaker 4: 43:55

as it came out, we thought we were like we're not going to waste your money, look what we can do with you know, we were thinking like look what we can do with resources If do with.

Speaker 4: 44:06

You know, we were thinking like look what we can do with resources, if we can do this amount. So as the words were coming, I was like trying to bring them back, cause it was like I mean, what'd you make this for two mil? They said mil, two mil, three mil, with like a little shrug and I was like no, you know. And then and then I was like wait words, come back, because it totally devalued what we actually did.

Speaker 3: 44:26

Yeah. So the guy was like, oh, so you can probably raise $200,000 for your next film on your own. And everybody walked away and I was like, oh, that's just so, it's such a backwards way of thinking and it's just how it is. So you know, that's why on most podcasts people listen to like no film school or making movies is hard and stuff like that. They always say can you talk about the budget? And people always used to talk about the budget and now they say it's under a million. Cause, that's not, that's not lying, you know it's, it's, it's it's way under a million. But you know, yeah, so, so branch out more. How do we go about? It's ever changing. This film was a lot different. We have investors. Well, we had made a film Right.

Speaker 4: 45:14

So, people, and it did well, you know. So when we, when Josh did the proof of concept for this, for El Tonto, we decided to like. We're always we're kind of like, all right, well. Well and this is my entrepreneurial side I'm like I don't take no for an answer, so I'm just like, well, how? So I'm always asking how can we do this, how can we do this?

Speaker 4: 45:38

So we were looking at um it's. We knew it was going to have to be a SAG film. So we also knew that if we could do it as a SAG ULB, that we could basically get our actors, everything could be half the cost. And because we have a lot of relational equity over the years of living in Dallas and what Josh had described, we knew that we could quadruple our production value and our budget of what we needed to raise. It was kind of the sweet spot for us, I always for Josh and I. We walk this path as what can we do? And so it's a yes, it's an open door that keeps us going down the next path. So, while this budget was so, much more than this one won't break. It was also a European style cinema, it was going to require a lot more and it was a lot more involved, also because it was a SAG film.

Speaker 3: 46:40

And on this film we also did what we always do, which is we all lived in this house. It was built in the late 1800s. It's a four-story house and that was also the monastery, but we all lived on the second floor and we shot on the third, fourth and the first and outside. There's something about that. I read that Wes Anderson always does that he rents out an entire boutique hotel or motel or does a little house and everyone lives there, and so everyone come down for breakfast, even if they weren't shooting, and then I would be like you know what, what if you walked by? So you, everybody's available and they're hungry, want to, they're. You know we only shot for, uh, 14 days on this movie. Oh my gosh, I know, but it was sun up to sun down and everybody wanted to be in it, um, at all times you were walking around in their cassocks.

Speaker 4: 47:39

Yeah, they were walking around in cassocks, I was constantly rewriting it because I had.

Speaker 3: 47:43

I was able to do that because they were around and they would come up and be like, ooh, what if I did this? And I would be like, convince me, because we only have two hours left. Is this important? And sometimes it would win, sometimes it would not, and it was still part of the story. Um, so there's that and that's putting everything in front of the lens. That's one thing I tell um, that's our cat.

Speaker 2: 48:08

sorry, we don't have a cat, ours, coming in too oh yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3: 48:15

That sounds like a kid, he yells that was funny.

Speaker 3: 48:19

I was like I thought you guys said, your kids were grown yeah, I always tell um everyone to put everything that you have in front of that lens to and I know it's only for a short period of time because a lot of people who were sagged that were around me and some people were union, so we actually were filming during the sag strike. We were one of the very few films to get the sag agreement. Oh great, it came on the the day before we started shooting and so we're able to film the movie while the rest of the world was not.

Speaker 1: 49:07

So that was very, very, very huge you said that very quickly, but you got that the day before we got the production we did oh my gosh three in the morning, they sent us a I mean we had.

Speaker 4: 49:22

there's so many miracles about that's. There is no doubt in my mind and we could give, we could talk for hours on it the miracles for this film because the budget that it came under. Even so, we have a consultant, producer, um, who handles our business affairs and he actually works within the Terrence Malick camp too, and and when I was talking with him and I said, okay, we wrapped and he goes, you did, without any incident and like no insurance incident. I mean I can just tell you our margins were so tight because of the sad strike. I mean we had actors but we had them for, like this time and we had them and we didn't have a budget to go beyond our 14 days. We had certain rentals.

Speaker 4: 50:13

Things had to go well and while we don't have special effects or stuntmen or anything like that, it's still I mean you're talking about really full days. Things have to be. You know we we don't need people getting sick. Like you know, things have to have to happen and there was just so much protection. Like I would literally wake up every morning, walk the block and I, one of my prayers, I would be like, okay, I felt like this was a scene from maybe it's a wonderful life or something, but I was just like Archangel Gabriel. I was like like Archangel Gabriel. I was like I know you're really busy because everyone knows who you are and didn't want you around.

Speaker 4: 50:51

I was like but can you just take your wings and spread them over this film? Like I was just asking for all the intercessions, all the protection, because we had enough, but we didn't have more than enough. We had enough. Everything went well and up to that point it was just there, was you know miracles. And then it would seem like one door would close hard and then one would fling open. So that was, but yeah, getting the sag. So I mean, that was the thing is like we had these actors, people flying in. We had rentals. This was the thing is like we had these actors people flying in, we had rentals. This was the day we were shooting. And if they and we had been bugging them like just every day, all of us, full court, press calling, emailing, we get that email in at two, three, I don't know we were, it was early, the wee hours of the morning we're supposed to start and they were like, yes, you can film, but you are not making another film this year. And we were like, okay, fine, we won't.

Speaker 3: 51:53

Yeah, I think the most important thing probably that was solidified for me that if there's any advice for filmmakers, it's really only be concerned about two days at a time, the day that you wake up. Take care of that day and what's happening tomorrow, because anything after that's going to change.

Speaker 3: 52:12

It's going to be totally different because but you do, you can control. So Jess was on the production house. She was controlling the next two days. I was on set filming and making sure we were getting ready for tomorrow and that's all you can really really do. I mean, you could have your schedule, you can have things, you need to have it mapped out, but just know you're sort of only in control for about two days and uh, and let yourself be okay with that. You know, and most of the filmmaking, like you guys know, it's it's 90 paperwork and 10% actually filming anything and it's just putting out fires. And if you're good at all those things and you have the lookbook and the aesthetic and you're prepared, and I said you know, you say how do we do this, how do we make these films and how do they look like they're million dollar films? It's because you know we don't have the money for pre-production, but you do have time. Even though you say we don't have time, we do like I would after work, I would go location scout on the weekends. I would location scout, I would go to thrift stores and get all the clothes and the props, and that's one thing that I'm very proud of.

Speaker 3: 53:24

People always say like your films, I love the costume design and who's. You know I'm like, it's me, I do that, I love it. It's very maybe that's the Wes Anderson-y part of like I like to have every. It has to be a certain way, like even down to an ashtray. We're shooting things in black and white and I was like but it needs to be a lighter green. They're like what we're shooting in black and white. I'm like, just trust me. And when they had it on, it looks better. And we'd had a black and white LUT the whole time, because where we shot was very colorful and there'd be moments of like, oh, let's shoot in this green kitchen. And I would put the black and white camera over and be like nope, that's not, that's a green. And you could fall in love with that, you know, if you were shooting in color. And yeah, I think a big thing is just don't fall in love with.

Speaker 3: 54:11

The thing I learned on this last film was don't fall in love with something too much where you can't see past everyone talking to you, like those two scenes that were not. That didn't work and I worked everybody way too much and it didn't work. And you know, just listening to having people that you trust and love around you, and I would rather have a couple people that I trust and love around me on a set than 20 people, who are professional, who are just trying to eat tacos and get out for the next job. Yeah, I can take it, you know.

Speaker 3: 54:47

I um, it's a. You know we're lucky that we get to do this. You know, we live in this country and technology has surpassed us enough where you can have an idea and, if you have enough tenacity and will, you can fast forward and be in a dark room with a silver screen and a hundred heads looking at what you created, and that's the most magical thing. I don't understand how we can take something that was in our head and idea and, a year later or however long, show people what was inside your brain.

Speaker 4: 55:23

Um, you know, and I and I think to what Josh is saying too one of the things is, uh and it was a question that you had asked earlier how do you? You know the time, the money, the budget? So a lot of what we do is in-house as well. You know, we started our family younger than most, not terribly young, but we were, you know, 24 when we had Julian, and Julian is now 23. And so you know he's.

Speaker 3: 55:50

And he's our, he's my editor.

Speaker 4: 55:51

He's, he edited the first film and this film, so he has some crazy editing skills and he's the editor. He and I produce and help, co-create, and so when we would do things whether it's a location scout when the boys were young there, we throw them in the car, pack a picnic and like that's what we're doing for a Saturday. So these are the things that we've all done together. You know, sonny, our youngest, he is a production assistant, so he'd be getting, or he'd be, an actor, you know, I mean, they both went to a performing arts high school and so, you know, josh would cast them, and so everything we do we would do together and we always have, you know, and now they're older and they have, you know, they're once graduating college, once finishing up college, but we still show up and support each other. So we had all of this built in in-house talent.

Speaker 4: 56:41

That would have been, you know, a big chunk of a budget as well, and so I think that when people are wanting to make anything but since we're talking about film, it's, you know, what do you have, what do you have around you, who are, and maybe, maybe you're like man, I really don't have much and then we'd say well, how we got to have so much in as a rich life is because we would show up, not just for each other, but for other people, other people's projects, lend a hand, be around, go the extra mile, do those things, and typically it'd be things we really believed in. We're like. This is incredible, and Josh has shot numerous music videos not for everyone, but people that he really believes in their work and then, at the same time, could use that as test shots for which is something we did for El Tonto.

Speaker 4: 57:27

We use that place that became the monastery and did a music video for who we really believe with that lens with that lens and it was a test for, so it was mutually beneficial for them and for our film and so I feel like that's always the how and for anybody doing anything on an independent level. We all need each other, and so my first thing is there's a lot of personal growth. Personal growth is usually the most free and the easiest, but it's also the hardest. It's you know.

Speaker 4: 57:56

So, you know, I'd say for people like, start working on how you show up for others and where your time, instead of like consuming, it's creating. You know, and even if even if that's like I always look at things, as my entrepreneurial brain too is all right, I want to spend time with these people because I'm interested in their craft, but also, let's do something really human. How about we have them over for dinner? Because the conversations are naturally gonna happen, right, that's where things happen. Ideas and you're like. I like you. I like you too.

Speaker 4: 58:25

Let's see what we can do together yeah so much of pre-production, pre-production having way before your script is even in process, because it's those things that are feel intangible but they're worth so much.

Speaker 4: 58:38

And I feel like now you know we've been married, uh, for 24 years and we've made two films and are working on a third script as we're working on the theatrical for this, and a huge part of of that, I would say, is personal growth, health in general, health, body, mind, spirit, you know just, and and in that personal space, you, you are showing up for your community and you're showing up for others, and your time will come. Probably your time's not ready until you put some of that in and and then, when you're ready, those people also trust you and want to be part of what you're doing as well, and so I'm really grateful for that process and even modeling that for our boys to in their life and, you know, with the path that they're taking like steven spielberg complex, which is like he made jaws when he was 27 and what's wrong, you know, and it's like it's this thing, it's like, well, first of all, it's not 1970, whatever, and yeah you know, and mine's the paul thomas anderson, he made boogie nights at 26 and magnolia at 28.

Speaker 3: 59:46

Uh, I'm like what am I doing right?

Speaker 1: 59:47

but like we also just didn't live in la at that time and we also just didn't. We just don't have those inroads like I mean I grew up in like ohio. It's like we also just didn't live in LA at that time and we also just didn't. We just don't have those inroads Like I mean I grew up in like Ohio. It's like it's like the antithesis of film hub. It's like the film pit of the world. I mean there's no film happening, right? Sorry for any listeners in Ohio, I'm exaggerating.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

We love Ohio, you can do it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

But the something you said that I really appreciated was the personal growth is the cheapest but the hardest, right, like in terms of like what we can offer in terms of value to our art. And it reminded me of what I've been seeing, speaking of needing to consume less. I need to be off of LinkedIn right now. I've been seeing all those AI Studio Ghibli photos popping up where everyone is now able to say show me this picture in the style of Studio Ghibli animation, and it's like this grotesque thing, right, and I love that. Of anything that came out of this, I love miyazaki's response to it, because people showed it to him and he said I feel like humanity is losing belief in itself, something, something along those lines 100.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

And just this idea of like oh my gosh, there's this magic tool that will do it for me, right? And? And this idea of like, oh my gosh, there's this magic tool that will do it for me, right? And this idea of like, look if AI could make a great film. Let's just say it's like actually amazing, like it looks photo real, the acting feels like Daniel Day-Lewis is starring in it with Meryl Streep and I don't know whatever name your fantasy football list and it's actually great. And it like makes me cry.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

I still would have zero interest watching it and zero interest making it, even if I had to sit for 100 hours and like, oh you know, it's an AI technician, or quote-unquote.

Speaker 1: 1:01:42

The point is that we don't do it for that reason, like what you just said, we want to build a community.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

We want to use this guy that was in our first film that we met through community theater and make him star in the second film that we wrote for him, because, like, he's an exquisite actor, like he's this human being and we're going to get to like spend time together making this movie, and then we get to like, share that movie with the world, and I don't know like what. Why would we do this? Well, the reason we wouldn't do it is because it'd be easy to let something else do it for us. But then again, that character growth, that personal growth, is gone right, and that's not why we're alive. Is it to like? I don't know, it's like wally, where they're all sitting in those floating chairs and like, literally like withering away. And so while we, while we list all the great cinema we dropped wally in at the, which is a capstone on all the movies we've mentioned, yeah, just touching on that really fast is you know most of the cinema that I love.

Speaker 3: 1:02:44

I mean, I do love cinema where it's my favorite actors. You know I'll admit I like Ethan Hawke. You know there's lots of actors that you grow up with and you admire. But when you watch a film like Ida, I don't know one person in that film. That was that girl's first movie. She was a waitress. They scoured the earth, they cast for a year and a half, found no one that he saw her in a cafe and she's been in nothing since. Yeah, and you know that's like.

Speaker 1: 1:03:11

Brisson right.

Speaker 3: 1:03:16

He sense. Yeah, and you know, that's like bressan, right, he used models, not actors. Yeah, exactly, you know, and there's something you know. So my thing is we had a couple opportunities to have some bigger names, but it's like it's going to take away from the film and it's also you're bringing in an audience that wasn't really invited.

Speaker 3: 1:03:33

In a way, and they're going to be disappointed and that's a negative review. So that's really why and we did have some you know Barry Corbin, who is in no Country for Old Men. He has the greatest monologue of all times. He's in my film and I wrote him a monologue and it's one of those things on set was the end of the day and we had shot for like 10 or 12 hours. It was 114 degrees in the Texas heat.

Speaker 3: 1:04:03

I remember I was in a picture. Me and him are both grimy and sweaty and we're just a mess. And I knew we had production meetings. I had to get up super early. We were driving to the beach to shoot and I never forget like is this the greatest day of my life? It felt like it was the greatest day because you've written something, one of your heroes is saying it, and you gave it everything you had and you got nothing left and I was like this is why we do this, this is it If nothing else happens. And I was like this is why we do this, this is it If nothing else happens. I have that, you know, and that's something. You keep adding those, you keep adding those moments and you look back and you have four or five films that you're so proud of, and you can't wait to make your sixth.

Speaker 2: 1:04:48

Yeah Right, I love that because I feel like the film itself is only a small piece of the whole experience making it and we get to keep that experience forever and share just a little sliver of it with everyone else.

Speaker 1: 1:05:00

Yeah, and those who watch it will feel it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:03

They will feel it and I think we think so short term in terms of like. Either we think numbers like what's the MG this actor carries, what's the box office we can expect on this thing, and what people totally forget is that movies you can write them into your will, like they are going to last longer than you, and when we measure success based on this, like what's going to happen in the first 12 days in theaters or whatever you know like, or first three days in theaters, you know, and we get so hung up on that and it's like then we start to make like these, we start to play the short game when we're actually in. We're in a long game and so what?

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

you guys are doing is you're you're taking okay, well, this cast isn't going to bring money on day one of the box office and that that could have repercussions down the line but most likely a stinky movie. It's way, way, way more common that a stinky movie has a big flash in the pan opening because you've got marketing budget and there's someone in it and they want to go see it yeah, they don't a big person, don't recommend it to their friends and it doesn't.

Speaker 1: 1:06:02

And then it just fizzles out and disappears. And then there's movies like the iron giant which got like totally short stick, right like our brothers forgot to market it like it's like you know like just like nothing happened in theaters for that movie, hardly at all.

Speaker 1: 1:06:17

Like it was a bomb and that movie everyone deeply loved it. I mean sorry if you didn't, but like yeah, it's this classic that people have just word of mouth for not just years but generations, like literally we're starting to raise our kids on movies now that bombed at the box office but they were beautiful.

Speaker 2: 1:06:37

It's a Wonderful Life. Even it's a Wonderful Life was a box office bomb.

Speaker 3: 1:06:40

Yeah yeah, that's one of my favorite films of all time and you know, like Shawshank, they released it two times in the theater because they were like, okay, something happened. It didn't play at all and they dropped it again in the theaters nothing, and it's one of the greatest films of all time.

Speaker 1: 1:06:57

Shawshank redemption it was like number one on imdb for years as the greatest film of all time like you said, or debt, or debt's been in sight and sounds list of 100 greatest films of all time for, yes, for decades. Like that's why, like you said, like all these great currently working um, they all refer to it. It's in their dna, which means it's in the movies we're watching, even if most people haven't heard of this stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:07:22

So like yeah, yeah yeah, bellator was like that for me. I thought that he was from like the 40s or 50s. He made those films and I find out he started making those in the 2000s and it's just. You know, if you don't mind watching a horse and carriage for 10 minutes with wind blowing, it's probably not for you but it's for me. I like it because it's nothing that I would make.

Speaker 3: 1:07:50

But I think if you surround yourself with cinema like that, that it's going to get inside of your blood and then maybe you're going to hold a shot for 20 more seconds, like you should, not 20 more minutes, but 20 more seconds. Because that's like what Paul Schrader says is when the door closes in pickpocket and the camera pushes in on the door and it stops as the audience you're like is he going to come busting back in? Is somebody else going to open the door? And then it cuts to the next scene. But you were thinking something, we all were thinking something. It gives you a little bit of anxiety, I think, which is good, and that's super important.

Speaker 1: 1:08:30

Yeah, no, well, thanks for mentioning Brisson, because a man escaped is up there.

Speaker 3: 1:08:37

I mean, come on, he says it in the title a man escaped, you know he tells you what happens.

Speaker 2: 1:08:44

Right the ending is like he has to go make a whole movie about it I think it's brilliant.

Speaker 1: 1:08:49

If you can pull that off.

Speaker 3: 1:08:50

you can pull anything off. Yes, Isn't?

Speaker 1: 1:08:54

you can pull that off. You can pull anything off. Yes, isn't that something? Isn't that, yeah, amazing, oh my gosh. Well, you guys, I don't know if we have one clear theme to this conversation at this point, but it's been such a delight, super grateful for y'all's time and, um, super excited for el tanto por cristo. I'm I'm genuinely very like, way more excited to watch that film than almost any film I can think of this year. So when are we going to get to watch it?

Speaker 2: 1:09:19

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Let's end on that note.

Speaker 3: 1:09:20

Tell us yeah, so people can follow us on El Tonto Pro Cristo on Instagram. El Tonto Pro Cristo the movie. Is that what it?

Speaker 4: 1:09:29

is El Tonto Pro it's on. Instagram, and then we have our website, which is really just kind of a holding pattern for email.

Speaker 3: 1:09:39

So right now, with you know, we submitted to some films that are foreign films Foreign film festivals yeah, foreign film festivals and we kind of shot for the moon. We've gotten some positive news. We don't know if it's happening or if it's not happening, but the film will most likely be released theatrically internationally first and then it will be in theaters all over the United States of America next. But we're dropping a new trailer. Since we have all sound design and everything. The film has been locked. But we have a really exciting new trailer coming out and just there's some exciting things that we can't discuss this recording?

Speaker 3: 1:10:29

Yes, but believe me, I'm ready for everyone to see. It's been the hardest. When you talk about patience and talk about slow cinema, not only is this slow cinema, it's the slowest getting it into a cinema I feel right, that's how it goes um, you know, I have some smart people around me and passionate jessica and our other producers, and they're like josh.

Speaker 3: 1:10:49

Just, I know five or six months sounds like an eternity, but it's not. It's the right time, yeah, um, so it's also great because I'm I'm finishing up my new script for my third film, so that's kind of a blessing as well that I get to I can, uh, focus on that and we're releasing the new poster um, really, really soon which was hand painted by the same guy who did this one break poster, and it's everything I could have ever wanted in a poster, so I'm excited to release that as well.

Speaker 4: 1:11:20

So yeah, so, um, if you, if you follow us, or I know you get our email, then you'll, you're going to start to hear a little bit more. So it's, it's really fun to have an inner circle of people that are interested in reading, so you'll start to get some regular correspondence that way of stuff that's happening.

Speaker 3: 1:11:35

Is it Josh, david Jordan people can follow the film or is it Holyfield Films?

Speaker 4: 1:11:39

On Instagram.

Speaker 3: 1:11:40

No for the email.

Speaker 4: 1:11:42

Oh, they go to the website or the Instagram. They can subscribe. I'll put it in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 1:11:47

Yeah, subscribe.

Speaker 4: 1:11:48

We just encourage our listeners.

Speaker 3: 1:11:51

We do that like a weekly update.

Speaker 2: 1:11:53

That would be better yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:11:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:54

You know, in case people aren't checking social like yes, a lot you don't want to be beholden to that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:01

So, yeah, subscribe via email if y'all are interested, and and just so that you stay in the know. Yes, and we're super excited for it, you guys. Well, thank you for all the excitement you got me. You got me excited again I know that feeling.

Speaker 3: 1:12:18

Yes, I hope. I'm grateful that we got to be a part of also. Uh, uh, I'm excited to follow y'all's. Is you're filming festivals right now? The documentary?

Speaker 1: 1:12:25

yeah, I'm right in paradise is currently still in festivals and it will be um once again. Nothing has been etched in stone yet, and I'm feeling the same antsiness in terms of being patient with like okay, like let's take that deal or let's do this thing or whatever, and I go no, okay, it's just going to take some time. We're still working, working the phones on that and it's it. But, like you said, promising things, it feels good, so well, congratulations on that guys.

Speaker 3: 1:12:52

Yeah, thank you guys. Congratulations, thank you. Thank you guys. Awesome, we'll talk to you guys soon. We're excited to stay in touch. All right, bye-bye.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

Bye Wait wait.