Ep. 73 - Success Patterns: Christopher Nolan

Hi, welcome to the podcast today. We will be highlighting another director for our success patterns series. We chose a director that you were assuredly. I'm going to be familiar with his name is Christopher Nolan. He makes movies with his wife who produces each of his films, so we can relate to that Emma Thompson. So if you haven't heard of Christopher Nolan, he's directed films such as the dark night. And the whole dark Knight trilogy. Inception memento. The prestige. Eh, interstellar. I mean, he's, he's made a lot of movies. You've heard of him. Okay. Dunkirk was like his one big Oscar bid. I feel like as best director he's been nominated several times for best screenwriting. Can I see. The second one, the mento, he and his brother both got Jonathan. Yeah. Got nominated for memento. Yeah. But they got, wow. Well, that was one department where I actually thought. They've gotten a lot of flack and criticism. Well, anyway, that's interesting. So he's, his movies have been in the Oscars for sure. I didn't know. He'd gotten screenwriting nominations. He's gotten won best director nomination, I think. And that's. Dunkirk, which also got nominated for best picture, which I think is the only time that he's had a film in that category. We're regardless who cares about the Oscars? We're talking about Christopher Nolan and, he's made a lot of very, very successful films. And so, his latest is tenant and. We're going to be talking about his earliest, not his latest film. Following. Yes. Very first feature film, which we've seen, following. He made that. Well, let's talk about how he got into film. First of all, a little bit, Sounds like. He and his wife both got into film, doing little short films. They said they didn't go to film school. But they had a camera, they had a roll of 16 mill and they did this competition where you'd make a three minute film and they do that every year and said it was much better than film school because. You can end up making only a 10 minute film after two years in film school. And sometimes that's true. I think sometimes you come out with, you know, not very much stuff. Depending on the school. Yeah, well, in those 10 minute films are usually tricky because they're conceptually so loose. Do you like. I feel like they almost always are exploring some, chin you have, you kind of get shoehorned into working with people that are just fellow students that you may or may not know very well or work together with very well. But you know, when you're just doing it like you and a few close people was whatever resources you have and you can make it about anything. And you have to make it in three minutes. I can see how that has informed his career. You know, Yeah. Cause his three minute films were all very. Conceptually focused, like really strong conceptually. So, yeah. And I guess I should mention the point of this series is to look at the patterns that. Modern successful filmmakers have followed to have success in this industry. And this is something that we've done for many, many directors is broken down. Okay. What did they do? What do they all have in common? Just to show you what you can do in your own career that is tested and proven. And we've developed our own process and method that we teach in the feature filmmaking academy. Based on these patterns that we see directors doing, and we just like to take individuals and outline them for you and. I'd say the number one thing is just that they make it happen themselves using their resources, whatever they have, and they always start with a cheap feature. Doing that. Well, and some people have cameras. Some people don't, some people do with friends and family and some people. You know, They're there. They're human resources. Our different. Some people go to film school and get formally educated and some people don't, and there's, there's really no, like has to be this way or that way kind of a deal. And so. We're going to look at Christopher Nolan and look at. The specific resources that he used. To create a specific story that he made with his wife, Emma Thompson, and how they pulled it together and what that film did for them. Ultimately. Yeah, and I think it's interesting that he did get these academy awards for writing. And he sent them. Or nominations. He might've fun. I don't remember. But he just said that he got into writing and I'll read the quote here because no, one's going to give you a script to direct when you're starting out. So I started writing just for myself just to be able to direct things. So he wasn't really attached to the idea of needing to write his own stuff, but he did it because he wanted to make stuff. And so. While you can work with a writer. I think it's also fine to just write it out well, and you know, Chris McQuarrie, the director of mission impossible six since a very similar thing, but almost from the opposite. Way, right. He was like, oh, I wrote this film. And then I like. Was working and doing all this stuff in Hollywood. And then. I like got this Oscar nomination or I can't remember something big happened for him. And then he said my career stalled for seven years and he said the one thing that filmmakers need to do and writers specifically. He, he's speaking to writers because he was kind of like a, I'm going to be a writer. You just realized, like, if you want to film career, make movies. So, whatever, whatever hats you've got to put on, whatever skills you've got to learn, make movies. And, and he said your career will stall if If you're just waiting for like the career to be handed to you or whatever. And so I really liked that quote because it shows the Christopher Nolan. And the people who worked with him were like, okay, let's. Let's just make something, you know, like we're going to make it, what are we going to make it about? Okay. I guess we'll have to write it once we come up with what it's about, who's going to shoot it. Well, I've got a camera I'll I'll hit the record button, you know, it's like. Oh, we have to get so-and-so and we have to have such and such. And I see people do this all the time. Honestly, I do. I see it in Utah. I see it in Atlanta. I hear about it in LA everyone's like, well, who are you going to get to DP it? And who are you going to get? To act in it and who you are and it's just like, make something. Yeah, you can, you can pick up the camera and figure it out. You can learn editing and. Shoot it and edit it himself and write it himself. I'm not minimizing the ridiculous amount of skill and. And the artistry that goes into every single department, I'm just saying. When you're starting start with what you have and you have yourself, you know, And they'll collaborate with you. Yeah, that later does inform how you work with those people when you do hire them on, you'll know, a little more of what to look for and how to tell if they know what they're doing and it'll just help you communicate better. So. One of the resources that he would use. And this is another thing that he has said. He said, you know, everyone's circumstances unique. You really have to look around at what you've got available and see how you can tell the story you want to tell. Using the things that you have around you. And this is always one of the first things we encourage people to do. In the feature filmmaker academies to. We'll take a look at your resources. What do you have? What can you use? That's unique. And he said many, many people have said it, but I think that's just serves to show how, if you get tired of hearing that, but I think we don't need to get tired of hearing it. We need to get tired of doing it because. We need to do it. Like they think that's just the only way. To start. And once you do it, you'll be one of those people who can't stop saying it because. Just go, just realize how true it is. Jared has talks about, I know everyone talks about Rodriguez. They always call him. That's always the advice they give. I thought it was funny that he said once I've made a film, I move on to the next. Usually at the same time, I move into a new flat so I can use it as a location. Hence, I moved a lot. Which I just thought was funny, because that is one of your resources where you live and we used our own house and we're still repairing it from the. The damage done from shooting our film and so worth it. Yeah, well, It was good. It was a good location. And by the time it looks completely different. And we finally finished putting a new floor in paint and scraped together. You know, the year's worth of money that it'll take to get this house presentable. It'll look like a completely new location. So, this is true. So, they were making these short films to start out. He and his wife together. And they shot this eight minute film about a burglary. It was. It costs them 200 pounds, they said. And so they used that math to create the budget for their feature film and basically said, okay, That means we can make an 80 minute movie for two K. Pounds. So that's basically what they did and they decided to just do black and white entirely handheld. In their case, they didn't raise any money for it. He just said he had a job. Every time he got his paycheck, he'd pay the rent and then the other half went into buying film stock. So I think that's so interesting because basically their mentality. Just follow the train of logic here in this story. So I, my mentality always goes to, okay, what's the budget. I can't possibly write down a budget until I've looked at the script and said, okay, I got to break the script down because that's what I was taught in film school. And I have to highlight every little element in every color for art and for prompts and for makeup and for set and for. Costumes and, you know, I've got to consider locations and I've got to consider like what's everybody's salaries. They were like, okay. We're going to use whatever prompts we have, whatever clothes we have and whatever actors are willing to do, it can do it and don't need money. No, one's getting paid on this. No one's getting paid anything. So that's all zero. Our budget is zero. We just need the stock. And that's not even a thing anymore. We have a camera. We need to film. Sorry. Now what you need a budget for us. Hard drives. If you have a computer and a camera. It's hard drives. No joke. Like it's shoot on your phone. Feature film. I will say that. Kent Kent's 21st century filmmaking advices. Don't forget to budget for hard drives. But aside from that, All you need is. Human resources. Whatever random resources you happen to have and time. Yeah. And if you are. Poor. And you live. In a very poor community. You have a pre art decorated. Person field community that you could shoot a film. And like, I know that sounds silly, but like people pay millions of dollars to create. A row of huts or. Cheap apartments and they decorate them to look. Like they're dirty and. So if they use relocations and they pay the people who live there and they're like, okay, don't clean your house. Cause we want it to look exactly how it is. And then they show up and it's all cleaned and they're like, ah, No. You know, but totally my point is, is that whatever is around, you seems it's so easy to see through it. Yeah. Because you're like, oh, I see this every day. There's nothing special about this because it doesn't everyone, you know, take this for granted, but really. There's something about where you live, who you live around or near there's stories that you have all around you. That if you can do that and write for your resources, you could make a movie for next to nothing. Except for the cost of either film stock, which I don't recommend nowadays. Or modern equivalent hard drives or the cost of hard drives, which, you know, I'm watching a YouTube right now who is developing his first feature. Which is interesting. And he just talked about what camera he's going to be shooting on. I won't say who, I won't say what camera. But everything he shoots on otherwise is a very affordable kind of pro-sumer level camera. But he's planning on shooting this on a major Hollywood camera because he lists a bunch of movies that have shot on this big Hollywood camera. And I'm wondering why he doesn't shoot it on the camera that he already has because his stuff looks great. It's stuff looks really good on the pro-sumer camera. He's very resourceful. He's a good DP. And he seems like a talented filmmaker. He could totally make his first feature for dirt cheap on that camera and it would look great and nobody, nobody would know. I wouldn't even know. He could say I shot this on. The Alexa LF and I'd watch it and go. I would never know that it was a pro-sumer full camera, full frame camera. You really can't tell that much. And. And even if you're good, you can't tell. I mean, if you're, and if you're bad, you can't tell that you shot it on a super expensive camera, you know, so well, and Tangerine even got a lot of attention because it was shot on a phone and never own. Cool. It was actually like, you know, artistically had something to say and it was powerful. It wasn't just like, that was the only thing people talked about. But it was a talking point. And so, your camera probably won't be a talking point unless you do use a phone. Which is fine. There's. You know, there's stuff out there, but it's really, once again, if you have access to a camera, you could almost, almost anyone could get access to like a DSLR or mirrorless camera for free. Yeah. Just find someone. Well, and I loved the approach they made even with time. So he was working his job, right. His paychecks were paying for rent. And stock stock. That was the budget. And they said whatever they had, like whatever they had to be able to buy stock. That's what they would shoot that week. So he said, I shot over 14 weekends shooting, 15 minutes of footage a day. And thought, theoretically, that would be enough to get the FilmAid. And it also, he also said, I knew that if we just ran out of money, we could stop for a couple of weeks. I was not going to process anything because that was expensive. I was just going to keep shooting so they didn't have the money to finish as they went, they were just like, What do we have to, what can we get this week? And do you see, he couldn't even process the film to start cutting because they just said, we're going to keep shooting until we've got that done. Then we'll save a week to week and just process footage, then we'll save up and we'll get into how he edited it because he had to get a. Like a Moviola or some sort of, you know, cutting machine back then. And then we'll get money for festivals and see what we do there. And I know we talked about this, like this was so long ago in the past. It was just pre-digital wave. Like this was, this was 1999. You know, this was. Within most of our lifetimes. Which is kind of crazy to think like this was in the last 20 ish years that no one had ever heard of this super obscure filmmaker. And literally from 1999, when following came out 2005, Batman begins came out. Think of what a leap happened in that career from 99 to 2005. So like, I dunno. I just think that's like incredible. Like say like, okay. Like a lot of things have changed in the film industry nowadays. Like we don't cut a movie, all those. We have digital. You could edit the movie while you go along. If you shot it on weekends, like he did because. Like, I mean, if you're paying for premiere or. Or if you've paid for DaVinci or final. I can use the schools or something. If you're a student, whatever, like. Public libraries. You could probably install some of the software. I don't know how that would go, but you use your, I movie. Use your own movie, you know, whenever. We've got stuff on cell phones. most of us have more resources than that nowadays. And I just think The fact that he made it work with how few resources did he, that he had. And I feel like people nowadays, I had someone tell me I could never make a movie for$25,000. They told us. You cannot make a movie for$25,000 because that wouldn't even pay for deliverables. Why are you even thinking about deliverables? If you're making an indie films or first feature film, just get it made and figure the deliverables out after that's like they, they weren't even planning. They were just. Like, yeah, we'll kind of figure it out. You can learn how to create the deliverables or find someone to help you. We've fortunate enough to know someone. Who's helping us with most of that. It's a lot of work, but. I don't know, it's just. This mentality that you can't possibly make a film for 25 K is ridiculous. You can make a film for zero. Okay. Right, right. Like you can make a film for nothing. You have available resources. Almost everyone has some sort of computation in their pocket or in their home. Most people own at least a desktop or a laptop. It doesn't have to be super powerful. Hard drives are cheap. Cameras are cheap and they're everywhere now. Sometimes they're in our pockets, right? Like, I mean, Yeah, it's just, there's there's so many resources. Now we have little excuse to make. Well, and I love Christopher Nolan's story just because of the time, because I think for a lot of people, that's a big hang up too is when will I have time to make a whole feature film? You know, I've got a job, I have responsibilities, you know, how am I going to get everyone together? And I love that they just did it on weekends and 10 minutes a day. On some days, he said 14 weekends shooting, 15 minutes of footage. So. That just goes to show you can spread it out like that. It's not traditional. Most people don't do that. Usually you want to compress, shooting as much as possible, but you could, could. Imagine your job and that's kind of what we did. Could you imagine being on set and being given like an SD card or see fast card or whatever your camera takes media wise and being told, all right, you're going to shoot in this Kodak on this camera with this card, it's enough for 15 minutes of raw footage. And whenever you run out of space on the card you're done for the day. It's like, that's incredible. That's credible and it's like, okay, you guys we're done for today. We'll do some more tomorrow. When I finished dropping all of this footage, which he couldn't have done because it was just film stock for them. So they were just buying another roll the next day. I just think that's incredible. And then here's the other interesting one. The crew let's talk about their crews. So their cast was consistent, which there weren't that many characters. It wasn't too complicated. Mainly three. Yeah. But the crew they said was whoever was around. And they said, the thing about our group of friends is instead of hanging around drinking coffee all Saturday long, we would just get together and make movies. Sounds like high school. Right. You know? It's fun. But then. The other quote that I wanted to share it. And I know we have a lot of quotes. It's just, we found this interview with him and his wife shortly after they made. They're first, they gave this in your feature film. Yeah. So it's really nice though. And he said, I've listened to people who say, you've got to get a good sound guy. You've got to get a really good DP. I don't agree with that. We would never have got our FilmAid. If we'd worked with people more experienced than ourselves for a start, they demand a whole new level of equipment, which we just couldn't provide. I will attest to that. That that was one of the biggest problems IDP at our first feature. And produced it. I, we just didn't have the hands to do sound ourselves. But sound was a nightmare. I couldn't get people flown in from Utah to do it, which would have been my first choice. And then we had. Our sound person get COVID day one. It was just this person we didn't even know, but they agreed to do it for like 150 bucks a day. Right there. You're at a different level than Chris Nolan's film. Right. He wasn't paying anyone at all. I put an ad out for 150 bucks a day rate on Facebook and got criticized up the wazoo for putting it out because they were like, that is offensive that you would offer so little money a day to do sound. And I'm like, Someone wants it, the opportunity. Yeah. Our sound was often people who are completely inexperienced in sound. We had several days where we would just get whoever we could get. There was a girl who would sometimes babysit for us. We. We have a high schooler operating a zoom H six. It was another high schooler who I'd met, who wanted to help out on something. He came and boom off one day and we had to sit down and train them and say, here's how you mix. Here's how you do it. Like now, there's you go? And there's two people worth mentioning. We did have one guy named Patrick who came and did a half day. He was great to work with in the Atlanta area. So. But he was expensive. But he was very, very last minute and he came in clutch. But the other two people who came in clutch were Chi. Who did it for a really, really cheap rate. He was still learning a lot, but he's, he's probably learned a lot since he shot our movie and he's going to be a really good sound person. The other one was actually a very experienced sound person who was Martin. White. And he did. A week on our film and he was. This was just like desperate pleading on Facebook and like reaching out, I didn't know, sound people in Georgia. And so we had people show, we had people help. Sometimes it was a high schooler. Several months by themselves. And that was not fun. One or two days. Anna did it. A couple of days. Our my AC. Michael did it. And he learned, he said, I've learned that I hate. I especially hate doing it while trying to direct, I don't recommend. And Michael was my AC because I didn't think I was going to need NACY and then I was just like floundering. Because I was trying to shoot on tripod or shoulder and pull focus and carry lights. And I was just falling to pieces, trying to do it all by myself. So I was like, I need like at least someone who could PA for me, you know, And Michael came on, learned a lot. Super super helpful, but he, he was. Just finishing high school. Yeah. And he did it for free. Incredibly experienced in. Yeah. So. Anyway crew. Those are some. Creative ways to get your crew. And then when he went to edit. He found a place that would give him just a little time to learn the machines for free, and then he had to start paying for it. And so he said he could rent the machine over a weekend for a hundred pounds and he did the whole rough cut in three weekends. And then they start submitting to festivals. And, they said we sent a lot of tapes out and one of the judges at a very prestigious festival liked it, even though we didn't get into that festival, she recommended it to San Francisco. And he said, my experience this far with the festival world has been that I've never got into a festival that I've applied for or where we've had to pay an entry fee. The film needs to be invited. So I think that's interesting, he still did apply to this prestigious festival. And that was beneficial because the judge liked it and recommended it to a different festival, that it was a better fit for. So it kind of started doing this little festival circuit. It sounds like once it got into San Francisco, They started asking for money and they raised. 3,500 pounds additional to finish the film in time for the festival. And for them, that was a good time to start asking because they could say. Hey, we got into this festival and we need to finish the film to actually be able to show it. And take advantage of this opportunity. So they raised. Some money and got it finished up and ready to go. Nowadays, the industry might be a little different the festival world. In my opinion, you might have a hard time getting into any prestigious festivals. If your film is not totally, totally finished, unless you've got star. Power named talent. Hard to know. Regardless, Napoleon dynamite was a rough cut. And that got into Sundance. And that was the big break for Napoleon dynamite as we've talked about. Yeah. Following, it sounds like didn't get any major film festivals, but it did its job. Well, it, it sounds like it did go to Toronto after the San Francisco, it got picked up by. Like a production company that helped raise additional funds to re. Finish it with even better sounded. And like they Polish the image a little. And made it look really nice. And then they were able to plan to release it at Toronto. So, but there's like a, by the seat of their pants, sort of like approach to this that I really appreciate where they're like, okay, well, we'll start to kind of just move the thing forward and like submit it and then finish it and then pulling a little bit more money and then finish it a little more and then release it kind of, and it's really interesting because they asked. Have you made any money from following? And Emma responded. No. So it's like that wasn't really the point of the film and they didn't need to make money because it wasn't like. They had debt to pay off. You know, they, they needed to make a movie. And what happens when you make a movie? You have, you've made a movie and there are very few people who have made decent feature films. I'm not even saying great feature films. Decent feature films, resourceful films. And why was following so good following as an exceptional first feature? Yeah. I think it's exceptional. I don't think most people realize that it was exceptional. It wasn't even getting into major film festivals at first. It's been released on criteria now. You know, and, and I've seen it and I thought it was impressively well done. And so it just shows. You know, It leads into some of these things that. That he says at the end. It's a, there's a quote here where he says, however, you have to make a film with whatever resources you have. Treat making that film. However, you're making it not as a means to an end. But as the best film you're ever going to make. If you're making it for money, then you're never going to do it. And it's never going to be any good. I like how he says you're never going to be, you're never going to do it and it's never going to be any good because a non-existent film can't be good. But, it goes to show that maybe if by some. Miraculous power. You do get money and you do end up doing it. If you're doing it because you're waiting for money or for the money, it's probably not going to be good, even though it does exist. And then he says, do something you believe in something you love and enjoy it. I think that's really. Pretty powerful. It's it's hard. I'll say. I don't know if they had children when they made the film. I doubt it based on the fact that they had so much weekend time to. To themselves to work on this thing together. But I don't know if there's anyone listening, who's in the same boat as Anna and I, but that was one of our biggest, biggest, biggest challenges. I've seen a lot of my friends make films. Some of them with their spouses. And. I've I don't know if I've ever seen parents. Do it together on a feature. I'm sure it's happened. But especially, I can't think. But especially with no money with no money. That is. That's hard to do. But I really have always been inspired by the fact that following, unlike almost any other film I've ever heard of was shot on weekends. I think it's just really cool and inspiring. And. It just shows that we all have certain resources. One of those resources is time. And if we don't have a lot of time, you know, It's compounding. Effort. Well, and in there, there were ways that that serves them. They talked about how, They shot kind of in continuity because it was over time. And so things changed. They could kind of play it. It would naturally match up with. Time passing. And there was a lot of time to think about, you know, and prepare for what they're going to shoot because they were shooting so little. At a time. So there are ways that that was a great advantage to them, I think. And I think it's true with any of our obstacles. You know, we mentioned children and yet our film features our children. So in a way, We had that advantage that we have children we could work with and use. I was gonna say, we didn't have to pay for those kids, but that's a partial truth. We constantly have to pay for those kids, but. We'll keep them. So. It's a subscription service. So anyway, the. The challenges that you face, I think can also be your resources. It can be what makes your film unique can be. An advantage that, that. Sets you apart. So. A few of the bits of advice that he gives to new filmmakers, I'll share a few. He talked about getting into festivals and how people would say, well, What do you wanna do next? And he said, if you don't have a specific thing, you can't capitalize on that moment. I've heard this from a lot of people. So that's something to think about. I don't know that you have to have it totally done, but having the next film. In your pocket, ready to go? Is a smart move to make once you're finishing up so that when people are. Excited and ready. You're also ready to go on the next thing. And here's another tricky thing. He said, make a film and enjoy it. Don't be thinking about what's the next thing. The thing after that, Well, But he just said, you need to have the next film ready when you're doing the festivals. Well, the tricky thing with followings, he mentioned how long posts took on the following because. On following it because, You know, it was just a long, slow process because of their limited resources, but they just went with it and finished it. But by the time they finally finished following because it was slow and there was lots of gaps in some pauses in between, they could sit down and just say like, okay, I got another idea for a movie and just sort of. Slowly develop that idea as there was time. So by the time they got that thing into festivals and it was getting some, some traction, you know, getting some attention. He was actually prepared for the next film. He says nowadays he doesn't really do that. He really finishes a film and then starts the next one. But yeah. But it's very common that like that thing is in its infancy in terms of ideation. Once you're well into post, or maybe even like you've locked the edit, you know, like at that point you can start to kind of. Come up with ideas, but you really want to stick with a film as long as possible. I think that's true. I'm, I'm feeling like that more and more obviously my time and attention are divided because you and I are both still parenting and running multiple businesses and having to. You know, Do things that are not living off of the money that we were paid. To make this first feature because we weren't, you know, And so. It makes sense. It makes sense that I'm on the first film. That's going to be a little different. But there's always going to have to be life balance. It's not like you're ever going to be like, now I am. The personification of a filmmaker and I do nothing but exude films. It's like. You put money in me and I put movies out of me, you know, it's like, you'll always have to like balance your life. You'll have to like exercise and sleep and go to the grocery store and think about eating. Well, you. Grocery or order groceries on your phone at least. And you don't probably want to read stuff and have, you know, meaningful, romantic relationships. And he might raise children, you know, like those are all big priorities that. Divide your attention. So if you're, if you feel like your attention is divided now, Well, it's just a little bit more divided as all, but you have time. I mean, he says that you, yeah. You need time. It doesn't necessarily mean that you need to be working. Full-time on it. This is a quote from him. It means. Time to throw some ideas together and then let them sit, go off and do something else. Come back and see what still feels right. And everything. So he's like, if you know, you've got no money, you've got time and you can let that simmer through your life and finish the film. It's another thing that can feel like. Like a stumbling block, but it can also be an advantage where, you know, It takes a long time when you are working another job. And when you are. Still doing other things. Or your resources are limited, so it's just slow moving. And yet you can use that time while it's slow moving to start developing the next thing. So he already actually had written memento his next feature film. And was ready to go. When people asked him, what do you want to make next? And that's his advice. He says. You have to have your next film ready? Getting into festivals helped getting an agent, but no, one's going to offer you your next film. You have to have it ready. He said before San Francisco, I met with a few agents who wanted to look at. What I wanted to do next. So I sent them my latest screenplay, which I'd spent a year doing. And one of them agreed to take me on. So. Yeah. And then I guess the last little note here, That I love is he says. Films or subjective, what you like, what you don't like. But the thing for me is that. That is absolutely unifying is the idea that every time I go to the cinema and pay my money and sit down and watch a film, go up on screen. I want to feel that the people who made that film think it's the best movie in the world, that they poured everything into it, and they really love it. And I really think that comes across. Whether you mean it to, or not your intentions in making a film, your experience in making the film? I think at all, Bleeds into the film itself and the outcome and the result for people watching it is that they will feel if you truly enjoyed making it, they'll truly enjoy watching it. Or if it's really something you feel passionate about, they're going to feel that passion. If it's a stressful experience, it might add to the stress of the film, which might be good, or it might be bad. But all of that kind of carries over. And so my next feature film is titled stress. That's what I love to experience and make a film about. I'll go to the two years to feel. No, but I do think at the end of the day, make something you feel proud of that you love and. And then it's at least you like watching it, you know? You're going to have to watch it more than anyone else. So. It's it's worth. Making sure you care about it. I'll make my last disclaimer here, which is that might be harder. To do than to say. Just because if you're anything like me, I have a lot of insecurities about the things that I think are most significant in my life or that I have strong feelings about making films about that stuff feels. For some reason your brain is just going to tell you that like no one cares about that stuff. Or that it's dangerous or that no one agrees with your points of view or that you can't say certain things in public? I don't know. Like I've got lots of those anxieties, honestly, and this, you know, I'm, I am working on a script a little bit when I have time right now. And, I'm surprised actually that how. Personal. Some of the views are in it and how scared I am to write it. I can't. Anyway. So I'm just saying that because you're likely going to feel some things. If you're writing something that's very personal with your resources and you're trying to put everything you've got into it. There are days you're gonna love it and have a great relationship with it. And there's days that'll be really hard, but. Hopefully you can push through and, and, And get the thing made. And I think that when you do actually make films that are scary to write. Those are the films that are probably gonna do the most for your career and for your life. Moving forward as a filmmaker. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I think there's so much we can learn from Christopher Nolan, his experience. We all know, you know, that that led to additional opportunities in his career quickly. Exploded. And I think he gave some really great advice that we tried to include here. So good luck making your feature. And again, you can download our free checklist. There's a link in the show notes to do that, on making your feature film. To launch your career. We also have a free 21 day challenge to just work on your film 10 minutes a day, which I think is great because he talks about shooting for 15 minute days. The 15 minute days, 15 minutes of footage a day. That's true, but still it's different. It just shows that a little bit can go a long way. That's production, but writing. You know, He was probably riding once a week on weekends. Just the same way that he, you know, or he was writing in the evenings. You can work 10 minutes a day. And once again, if you do 10 minutes a day, you'll start to get a rhythm. It's a powerful thing. So it start, try, try out the challenge. You guys, it's a free resource and we're seeing a lot of people have. A lot of success with it. Right now. So jump on in and. And check out the resource that that is. Yep. That's a great one. And we do always pick one person a month to win a free membership. In the future filmmaker academy, who's completed the challenge. So that's also an opportunity you can look into and don't want to miss you'll learn a lot. And yeah, we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks byte. Bye