Come join us today with Cooper and Emma Sutton, a married couple, who are both actors. We have some fun reminiscing but also get down to business to talk about competition, comparison, supporting each other, and how these two are taking their careers into their own hands.
There are only two weeks left for enrollment in The Film and Family Academy for select filmmakers. Enrollment closes July 1st, 2021. Apply at www.invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily
This podcast is owned and sponsored by Invisible Mansion Pictures. For more resources, visit us at: www.invisiblemansion.com
Come join us today with Cooper and Emma Sutton, a married couple, who are both actors. We have some fun reminiscing but also get down to business to talk about competition, comparison, supporting each other, and how these two are taking their careers into their own hands.
There are only two weeks left for enrollment in The Film and Family Academy for select filmmakers. Enrollment closes July 1st, 2021. Apply at www.invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily
This podcast is owned and sponsored by Invisible Mansion Pictures. For more resources, visit us at: www.invisiblemansion.com
Career Competition with Emma and Cooper Sutton
[00:00:00] Anna Thalman: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm anna
[00:00:01] Kent Thalman: [00:00:01] and I'm Kent.
[00:00:02]Anna Thalman: [00:00:02] And this is film and family, a podcast about feature filmmaking for professionals in the film industry with families hit subscribe to never miss an episode.
[00:00:10] Kent Thalman: [00:00:10] Let's jump right in.
[00:00:12]Anna Thalman: [00:00:12] All right. We have two very special guests today. Our friends, Emma and Cooper, Sutton. Did I say that right?
[00:00:21] Emma Sutton: [00:00:21] Yeah.
[00:00:21] Cooper Sutton: [00:00:21] That's right.
[00:00:23] Kent Thalman: [00:00:23] Sounds not really that hard
[00:00:24] Anna Thalman: [00:00:24] to set it out loud in front of them became self-conscious. Emma and Cooper are a married couple. They are living in Utah right now, but they've also been living in New York and we went to film school the same time as them. And have worked with them as actors. They're both actors and we're really excited to talk to them about. What it's like for them to balance being married and both doing acting and all that fun stuff.
[00:00:53] Kent Thalman: [00:00:53] Yeah. Thanks. You guys so much. We're we're geeking out. Just getting to talk to you again.
[00:00:59] Cooper Sutton: [00:00:59] It's great. to be [00:01:00] talking to you both.
[00:01:00] Emma Sutton: [00:01:00] It's fun.
[00:01:02] Kent Thalman: [00:01:02] Okay. well, let's see, where do we start?
[00:01:05] Anna Thalman: [00:01:05] So why don't we start with explaining how we know each other, and then how you guys came to know each other and how you got into film. So I guess I know you both from, just from film school, from seeing you act, I think I saw you act in different short films or projects before I'd ever met you actually in person. It's one of those weird things where you , know someone's face and then you meet the real person. So then met both of you at different points and
[00:01:38] Kent Thalman: [00:01:38] probably the same for me. I think I saw it, you know, both of you, I think in homework assignments, In classes and then you get to know each other. And then, I just remember watching professors break down performances and stuff with you guys in it and, and feeling like, I think first it was Cooper. Cause I think you did a little bit more of that kind of homework stuff with other [00:02:00] students. Emma, you did a lot of theater.
[00:02:02] Anna Thalman: [00:02:02] I think I saw Emma first. Yeah. And what was it like a six week cinema commercial or something? It might've been that
[00:02:09] Kent Thalman: [00:02:09] Yeeeeeaaah, the one that Taylor Davis did
[00:02:13]Emma Sutton: [00:02:13] It was like, my makeup was based off of, was it Peggy or whoever that model was, but it was set in like the seventies or something.
[00:02:19] Anna Thalman: [00:02:19] Yeah.
[00:02:20] Kent Thalman: [00:02:20] Now I don't know if I picked up on the seventies
[00:02:22] Anna Thalman: [00:02:22] I don't know if that's the first one I saw you in or if it was something else, but I remember seeing both of you act together as well and something, I can't remember what there was a scene.
[00:02:31] Cooper Sutton: [00:02:31] Yeah, we did a couple.
[00:02:32] Emma Sutton: [00:02:32] So from the one from Brooklyn, the movie, Brooklyn,
[00:02:36] Anna Thalman: [00:02:36] I just remember you were sitting on a ledge and like a little hallway.
[00:02:42] Kent Thalman: [00:02:42] that was Britney Toolson's two 85 final.
[00:02:46] Emma Sutton: [00:02:46] That was on of the first
[00:02:49] Kent Thalman: [00:02:49] I remember that specific, homework assignment. I remember Jeff Parkin breaking it down and stopping it and like pointing at Cooper's face and being like, do you see how he's listening? And I think that was when I [00:03:00] was like, Jeff was, uh, I think that's a very big compliment for Jeff to stop a short and point. Something like that out where he's like, notice how he's in this at this moment. You can feel it it's feeling really good. And that was helpful for me actually. So Cooper, you really contributed to my, , film, education because he kind of broke down your performance in that way. And it was really nice and you guys both, I remember just doing really good work and in school and stuff. So that was, the beginnings at that same time, was when, Emma introduced us to this concept of this mystical place called Peachtree city. And, we were like, well, yeah, neat, whatever golf cart place. sounds neat
[00:03:40] Anna Thalman: [00:03:40] That's the other funny stories that Emma is actually from Peachtree city where we now live. So it's kind of a small world thing
[00:03:47] Kent Thalman: [00:03:47] had no intention whatsoever of ever living there. Even when we decided to move to Georgia, I did not think we would end up living here and then. You know, love happens and we decided we wanted to live here forever. And,[00:04:00] we'll see what the future brings. But if nothing, if nothing changes, we'll be stuck in Peachtree City.
[00:04:06] Cooper Sutton: [00:04:06] Great Place.
[00:04:07] Emma Sutton: [00:04:07] I know. I'm jealous. I love to go back.
[00:04:12] Kent Thalman: [00:04:12] Well, we'll see what the future brings.
[00:04:15] Anna Thalman: [00:04:15] Maybe we can find a reason to bring you out here and
[00:04:17] Kent Thalman: [00:04:17] we'll get you guys out here for some reason or another. But, so then you guys went to New York
[00:04:22] Anna Thalman: [00:04:22] before we get to that. You said that that scene was one of the first, does that mean it was like one of the first times you guys met each other or just acted with each other? Where were you in your relationship at that point?
[00:04:34] Cooper Sutton: [00:04:35] We first met, in school as well, just in one class we had where we were doing theater project together. So that was the very beginning. Just kind of acting across from each other in a stage play. And then with all the different homework assignments that film came about, I think we were dating by the time we started those,
[00:04:56] Emma Sutton: [00:04:56] we were definitely dating.
[00:04:58] Cooper Sutton: [00:04:58] We already started dating. [00:05:00] which was interesting. Cause we got awful close awful quick.
[00:05:05] Emma Sutton: [00:05:05] Well, the first play that we, that class where we met was just doing a play and we'd never met before this class. And then that first day of class, we got cast as husband and wife.
[00:05:16] Kent Thalman: [00:05:16] That's amazing.
[00:05:18] Emma Sutton: [00:05:18] I mean, our program was so small. I thought I knew everyone in the acting program and then all of a sudden this new guy walks in and I'm like, who's this guy. And, and then we get cast as husband and wife and I'm like, that was, it was crazy. And yeah, so it was fun. And then we ended up having to switch the play. And then we got cast as brother and sister. And then yeah, we started doing film stuff and it was that scene. We did may have been the first film thing I'd really ever done. I hadn't done film before that I'd only ever done theater. And [00:06:00] so Cooper was really into doing like these film projects and things. And so then I kinda got introduced to doing 'em and we did that together. And I remember I was just terrified. I had no idea what I was doing. You always think oh, I do theater acting. I can do film. And then. You do it. And you're like, whoa, you're really close to my face. you know, it's so much more nuanced and things like that. And it was fun.
[00:06:24]Cooper Sutton: [00:06:24] And of course the best time was when we got in our class with, you got to learn more about what you do and work on projects with both of you. And that was fantastic
[00:06:33] Kent Thalman: [00:06:33] wait now. So that, that class, I was not a part of you're referring to the, advanced directing for actors. And for you, it was considered a different right. Years.
[00:06:43] Emma Sutton: [00:06:43] Yeah. Advanced
[00:06:45] Cooper Sutton: [00:06:45] acting, for film
[00:06:46] Kent Thalman: [00:06:46] acting. for film Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You were both in that class. Okay. Yeah. I think I remember that now because I kind of watched them from a distance I wasn't in class.
[00:06:56] Emma Sutton: [00:06:56] I remember you'd come by a lot with the kids. I think that's how I first met you.
[00:06:59] Kent Thalman: [00:06:59] I [00:07:00] don't think
[00:07:00] Emma Sutton: [00:07:00] you'd stop by with the kids.
[00:07:01] Kent Thalman: [00:07:01] I don't think I ever actually was in that. No, not
[00:07:07] Anna Thalman: [00:07:07] really in the hallways, in between switching off babies between
[00:07:10] Kent Thalman: [00:07:10] classes. I know we did some, two 85 work with you and live with Jeff. You guys did a scene that he did the master. He did like a million takes on the master, and then we never got to do coverage because class time ran out Kramer vs. Kramer scene.
[00:07:26] Emma Sutton: [00:07:26] Yeah. I never got to see the final product he promised didn't.
[00:07:31] Kent Thalman: [00:07:31] I don't think there was a final product to be Frank, but, it was very helpful for all of us to kind of shoot that thing and, you know, watch your workshop and know that at the time you were still kind of feeling like you were more of a theater actress. And I actually remember Jeff saying, she says that, but she's got a very filmic quality about her. I think even natural presence on camera. I think you actually have a natural intuition for. Performing to camera. So that was another [00:08:00] thing. Jeff likes you both apparently a lot, and that's a big thing. That's a big deal. So
[00:08:05] Cooper Sutton: [00:08:05] yeah, he was a great mentor there. Yeah.
[00:08:07] Emma Sutton: [00:08:07] We loved any chance. We got we did a couple other things for him for classes. And any time he asked, we were like, yes, please. Thank you.
[00:08:14] Kent Thalman: [00:08:14] Yeah. Yeah. I remember you and Brando Cooper did that. Weird. I say weird because it was context list, but it was like a scene that I think Jeff had written for like this mermaid film.
[00:08:26] Cooper Sutton: [00:08:26] Yep. Old trucker at the time we did, it was the current title then. yeah, I had still have no idea what the entire story was about, we shot that scene where he came up and he was like, yeah, I got this truck full of mermaids. Do you want to drive it? And I was like, All right. It doesn't get much better than that that's when me and Brando really bonded. Yeah.
[00:08:52] Kent Thalman: [00:08:52] You know, that scene worked really well though. I was surprised at how serious of a movie. It seemed for a strange of a jumping off point is [00:09:00] that
[00:09:02] Cooper Sutton: [00:09:02] and the way Jeff, the way he just framed everything in that studio there in the basement of BYU, he turned that thing into this carnival set that I never could have imagined while being on set because all these little chairs, a little light rack. And then a wall, but somehow happened the shots. He got the lights he put in just completely turn it
[00:09:24] Anna Thalman: [00:09:24] oh yeah. I was so convincing. He told us afterwards that he filmed it in a little room.
[00:09:28] Kent Thalman: [00:09:28] The, a room is what it's called. It sounds like something from Mr. Rogers, land of make-believe or something, the castle, the, a room. And, what are they called in the acting world? Those black boxes. They're not apple boxes. Are they? No.
[00:09:42] Emma Sutton: [00:09:42] What do we call them?
[00:09:42] Cooper Sutton: [00:09:42] A pen,
[00:09:44] Emma Sutton: [00:09:44] the blocks.
[00:09:45] Cooper Sutton: [00:09:45] It's very, very scientific blocks.
[00:09:47] Kent Thalman: [00:09:47] I'm just gonna to call them like the black boxes or something.
[00:09:50] Anna Thalman: [00:09:50] Grownups with bigger toys.
[00:09:53] Emma Sutton: [00:09:53] Yeah. Couches. And,
[00:09:56] Kent Thalman: [00:09:56] but he used some of those. I feel like in that too. I can't [00:10:00] remember. But yeah. Then he just did this really nice establishing shot. And then some, Nice sound design. And I remember we were all like, wait, what? You shot that in the a room.
[00:10:07] Emma Sutton: [00:10:07] No, I was jealous. He got that beautiful scene. And then when Kramer vs Kramer, I got nothing.
[00:10:15] Anna Thalman: [00:10:15] Well, I feel honored that I saw your first. I didn't realize that that little video was your first time doing film. And I remember everyone talking about you guys were actually dating because there was some chemistry and we're like, I think they're actually dating if I remember right. Something like that.
[00:10:33] Kent Thalman: [00:10:33] Well, that's yeah,
[00:10:35] Anna Thalman: [00:10:35] it's now, I feel honored that I got to witness that. That's so funny that you were cast as a married couple,
[00:10:40]Kent Thalman: [00:10:40] but then demoted in the same play. Is that what I understood to brother sister ?
[00:10:43] Emma Sutton: [00:10:43] Well yeah they switched in the same class, we weren't allowed to do that play anymore because there was too much language. So we switched to a different play. And so then got recast. But if we hadn't have switched plays, we honestly may not have started dating because it was the day that [00:11:00] they canceled class because we weren't allowed to do that play anymore. And our professor was like, okay, I'm canceling class. Cause I need to go find a different play that we ended up, going off and talking for three hours. And
[00:11:12] Kent Thalman: [00:11:12] wow. Maybe
[00:11:14] Anna Thalman: [00:11:14] you can really become husband and wife instead of just
[00:11:17] Kent Thalman: [00:11:17] acting. You guys are so method, that's serious dedication because you're just expecting that play. They still happen. Is that what it is? Right.
[00:11:26] Emma Sutton: [00:11:26] I was really hoping for it. And
[00:11:28] Cooper Sutton: [00:11:28] then we'll stay married until it does
[00:11:33] Anna Thalman: [00:11:33] well, we better never do it. Then
[00:11:38] Cooper Sutton: [00:11:38] I've been waiting four and a half years.
[00:11:42] Kent Thalman: [00:11:42] That's awesome. Well, that will be, a short film that will just get better with time and we'll brag about it for the rest of your lives. so let's just talk about this for a minute. So Anna and I are both behind the camera and we're a married couple and you guys are both in front of the camera and you're a married couple. [00:12:00] And so we'd love to maybe explore that a little bit and talk about what is that like in general? would you recommend it I guess, I don't know.
[00:12:09] Anna Thalman: [00:12:09] Did you ever imagine you'd be married to another actor and if so, or if not,
[00:12:13] Kent Thalman: [00:12:13] is it like, wow, this is super awesome.
[00:12:15] Anna Thalman: [00:12:15] Is it great or is it hard or what, you know, what's it like?
[00:12:19] Cooper Sutton: [00:12:19] Or you can go with that one because I know your answer.
[00:12:22] Emma Sutton: [00:12:22] Well, I don't know the answer. tell us growing up and things like that. I always thought I would never marry an actor. Yeah. I never thought I'd marry an actor. Cause I was always like, well, I need someone that's going to like, Hey so that I can become an actor. And so I was like, oh no, I don't think I could handle both being in the acting world. He'd probably be too dramatic or I don't know. I just, I always thought I'd not marry some of the acting world, but then like in college I dated people who weren't in the acting world and I dated one guy who's all of a sudden [00:13:00] dated me and was like, I want to go audition for a play. And I was like, why are you doing that? An actor? And another guy, I dated, he hated theater, but I was like, can you come see this play with me? And he was like, I guess, but then he , hated it. And it was just always this weird, difficult thing between us because they didn't want me to kiss other people or they just didn't get it. and then I dated Cooper and it was just so easy. He understood hard, the good, the things like that. And we have classes together and we're just in the same world. And it just felt like someone who finally understood me.
[00:13:38] Cooper Sutton: [00:13:38] Thank you.
[00:13:38] Emma Sutton: [00:13:38] You're welcome
[00:13:40] Anna Thalman: [00:13:40] you guys are so cute.
[00:13:41] Kent Thalman: [00:13:41] Well, I'll just say in your defense, Anna still says. that she'll never be married to an actor and that it would be a deal breaker if I decided to transition into acting. So
[00:13:53] Anna Thalman: [00:13:53] there's certain professions I wouldn't marry. I wouldn't marry a doctor either. Sorry, nothing [00:14:00] personal
[00:14:00] Cooper Sutton: [00:14:00] personal preference. You got to stick with them
[00:14:04] Kent Thalman: [00:14:04] funny. No, but I remember that I had a similar feeling where I was like, oh man, after dating. And I was like, I don't know if anyone's going to be able to tolerate listening to me, talk about ideas and movies and all this other stuff, because I'm kind of extroverted. I don't mean that in like a I'm the most confident person ever. but in the sense that I think out loud and that's probably obvious, it's probably obvious to podcast listeners, but yeah. And so I was like, if I marry someone who's not into this. It's just going to become a strain on the marriage. And it was really just after dating Anna, it was like, wow, this is, this is really great because I can actually listen to her. And she has, I mean, we'll talk about ridiculous film theory. I remember one time, I don't know why we were in the middle of Sharon, you know, Sharon Swinson. Did you guys ever meet her?
[00:14:55]Cooper Sutton: [00:14:55] I don't think I've met her.
[00:14:56] Kent Thalman: [00:14:56] No, she, she taught film theory and some of the more like, you know, [00:15:00] you wouldn't have interacted with her on a production sense, but she was super awesome. And she retired actually while we were at BYU. but she was just a gem and we were taking her theory class. And I remember you and I getting on this hour long kick explaining film theory to your mom and like, explaining these really crazy historical theoretical concepts. it was really us, I think, struggling to get through that class because it was very taxing. And I think just spilling the beans out loud to someone else who knew nothing about it. It was helpful for us. But I still wonder, like how did she sit there and listen, what a markable listener that she would sit there through that she's like a high school counselor. So that's why she's probably so good at listening honestly,
[00:15:42] Cooper Sutton: [00:15:42] Jeff would have said now look how she's listening.
[00:15:47] Kent Thalman: [00:15:47] Yeah. what an accomplishment. Oh man. So can understand why you would say that, there's this understanding. That comes with it, that it's not a requirement and all sorts of people will [00:16:00] have different lives, but it's kind of rare. I know very few married actor couples. I mean, obviously let's just pretend celebrities don't count, like the, like, you know, a list actors don't count, where they start out making where they start on married together and they're both acting that's pretty rare, I think. But,
[00:16:20] Emma Sutton: [00:16:20] I mean, it comes with its difficulties too.
[00:16:22] Kent Thalman: [00:16:22] Talk about those.
[00:16:23] Anna Thalman: [00:16:23] What are the, what's hard about it?
[00:16:25]Emma Sutton: [00:16:25] Well, I mean, it's hard not comparing yourself to each other, you know, very true. I think that has been probably the biggest thing, especially like when we moved out to New York city, it's so expensive. So I was just like, I'll get a job. I'll get a full-time job and you go and you act Acted like such a marter. I was like, I'm going to do this for you. and then I'm sitting there watching him, you know, do classes, go out to Utah, film a movie, as I'm sitting in an office doing what I hate. And so then, you know, you get a little bitter and, but then because of that year and a half, now I'm a [00:17:00] year and a half behind him, you know, he was taking these steps. And so now he gets auditions. He gets things and it's hard not to compare yourself and be like, well, your, life is so much easier than mine. Like pity me.
[00:17:12]Kent Thalman: [00:17:12] That's true.
[00:17:14]Cooper Sutton: [00:17:14] Yeah. I'm constantly pitying you so difficult relationship. That's not true at all. Yeah, it is. It's a constant struggle because as actors, it's very rare that you're ever acting together. It's not something that you're doing together because you're usually casting someone else's project. You have no control of kind of equaling it out or sharing and giving. It's just whatever comes your way a lot of the time. And that has been not fun a lot of times too, because when you get something you're super excited, but then you're also just like, you don't want to celebrate too much. And then if someone else gets something low, you're super happy for them, but you're also a little depressed on the side. [00:18:00] So that, that is a constant, yeah. Mine's
[00:18:05] Anna Thalman: [00:18:05] kind of each other's competition at the same time.
[00:18:08] Kent Thalman: [00:18:08] Interesting companions, or that reminds me of a, my, I got into BYU and my sister was really mad because she really wanted to go to BYU. And so anyway, I just imagine that that's probably the dynamic, but yeah. Maybe on a more constant basis, but think Anna and I can relate to that, to be honest, I think we've
[00:18:25] Anna Thalman: [00:18:25] today, this morning, we were kind of having a little, a little bit of an argument about this.
[00:18:30] Kent Thalman: [00:18:30] we've never argued.
[00:18:33] Anna Thalman: [00:18:33] Oh yeah. I forgot where we're on the podcast. Oh, no. Yeah. You're talking about, about how, you know, we started our business together, but then I was having babies. I kind of dropped out for a little bit and he was doing more of the work and, now it's like, oh, his side of the business, we kind of have our sides of the business or whatever his part of the business is way more successful, but [00:19:00] yet financially, financially, But still I dropped out for so long that I was taking care of babies and raising our kids that I kind of do feel behind the same way. it's always sort of a sacrifice every time. And even for him to let me do work is a sacrifice. There's always that give and take and feeling like, can we make it fair and still progress together? What does that look like? And not hold each other back?
[00:19:30] Kent Thalman: [00:19:30] I mean, it's been interesting because our skill sets have changed so much over the years and that Anna and I were pretty equally yoked in terms of we would shoot and edit a lot, but neither of us were superb at, we were very young. We barely gotten into the film program at our school. We'd grown up doing random stuff, but it wasn't like we really knew what we were doing. And then we started having kids and that's when I think I started to really figure out a lot on the technical end of filmmaking. And then, I actually think that in some ways that has been, it's been [00:20:00] good because I have become such a focused person and you've stepped into the director's chair a little more because I mean, you'd never stopped thinking that way and you finished your degree in directing and everything.
[00:20:12] And so I'll edit a film and you'll stop and be like, why are we telling this story? And I'm like, I don't know, but this isn't working. And you're like, yeah, but why are we telling this story? why did we write the script? And what was the purpose of it? And what emotion are we trying to create? And then it always forces me to step back. So there's pros and cons to it, but our skill sets have changed, I think. And it's really easy to make money when you're, good at pushing the buttons and getting the exposure and cutting and using the technology. People just need it. Yeah.
[00:20:41]Anna Thalman: [00:20:41] yeah, you've way surpassed me in all that stuff.
[00:20:43] Kent Thalman: [00:20:43] Well, but you know, Steven Stevie Edlin, who's the DP of last Jedi knives out. He talks about like I was working regularly with, before my best friend, Ryan Johnson was directing anything because directors, their career trajectory is just [00:21:00] different. So it just takes a very long time before, that first feature he's going to take six years after he graduated from film school to even get it off the ground. Whereas as a DP, I can just go out of school and just work like, crazy. And so by the time Ryan Johnson's film got done, he was like, oh, my best friend is DP, all this stuff he's like, and the producer was like, great. Let him do it. He'll do it for a hundred bucks a day or whatever. And so I talk about ourselves and all, but,
[00:21:24] Anna Thalman: [00:21:24] so, so I'm curious. Do you guys have any tips or things you've learned as you've had to work out that dynamic that help you balance it out or help? You know, when do we. Support the other person who's in charge of making the money versus pursuing the passion projects or how do you, how do you negotiate
[00:21:42] Kent Thalman: [00:21:42] try and like make that successful?
[00:21:43] Anna Thalman: [00:21:43] Yeah.
[00:21:44] Emma Sutton: [00:21:44] I think something we realized after, you know, I took that year and a half of say, I'm going to work full time. We realized that doesn't work. If you know, neither person should have to completely give up doing what they love. and so [00:22:00] it definitely got a lot better once we're like, okay, we're both just going to work part time, to, you know, have to support us and get the money. So that's kind of the thing we found out, at least when it comes to just having a, steady income, we both just work part time. And then on our days off is when we just focus on our, career and crafts and things like that.
[00:22:21] Cooper Sutton: [00:22:21] That's true. I think a lot of people can say, well, I have to take a break from what I love just for a little bit, so I can work out something or someone else can take a chance. But if you love something and it's just all you can think about and all you're passionate about taking a break really doesn't help you. Because during that time, all you're thinking about is I wish I was doing something else. I wish this was different and you're going to be miserable. So you have to find a way to at least have a little bit of what you love constantly.
[00:22:50]Emma Sutton: [00:22:50] Yeah. I think it's so interesting.
[00:22:53] Kent Thalman: [00:22:53] You're going to say something, Emma.
[00:22:55] Emma Sutton: [00:22:55] oh, I just like, I, and I think, like it's easy to say, but you just [00:23:00] can't compare yourself from, you know, especially like we're so different. Our types are, you know, the fact that we're a man and a woman, like the parts we're going to get are so are so different. Even when we audition for the same, we've auditioned for the same movie and he's gotten it and I didn't get the part I auditioned for. And it's just like, you just have to remember that every time, but I mean, very much easier said than done.
[00:23:24]Kent Thalman: [00:23:24] Oh, yeah, no, I could see how that would be really difficult. I really liked what you said about not taking breaks. I mean, obviously breaks, meaning for six months, I'm not gonna,
[00:23:34] Anna Thalman: [00:23:34] because I switch off completely set it aside,
[00:23:39] Kent Thalman: [00:23:39] broad swings.
[00:23:40]Anna Thalman: [00:23:40] we tried the exact same thing.
[00:23:42] Kent Thalman: [00:23:42] Sabbaticals might be really good, healthy for some people. I know the guy who did, my octopus teacher kind of goes over some of that where he burnt out for awhile and that might be healthy, but if it's not because of burnout, if it's because of like, oh, I just need to be quote unquote responsible in this way. Or I need to get a job or whatever. Yeah. I don't recommend that at all either. Honestly, [00:24:00] I feel like, keep your foot, at least one foot in that world constantly. And it's like Dallin H. Oaks talks about the small and simple things and talks about, the root that just presses, with an almost immeasurable amount of force over the course of a year will split a piece of concrete in half and. And Noam Kroll talks about compounding effort, comparing it to compounding interest and how he's like, if you just invest a little bit every month over the course of time, it actually turns into this massive investment and the interest rolls over in a sort of exponential way. I felt that will be true in my life. And I'm seeing it. I think the beginnings of it where it's like Anna and I split four hour days, you know, four each kind of a thing and that we've got kids already and we've got a lot of other responsibilities. And I remember Tom Russell in school saying the people you guys compete with in LA are going to be, they're going to be putting in, they're going to wake up in the morning and do nothing but this, [00:25:00] and they're going to go to bed at night, having done nothing, but it, and they're going to sleep for four hours and then wake up and do nothing but this and he said, most of you are not going to have that life. And I was already married and already a dad at that point. And I was like, yeah, you're right. I'm not going to LA and I can't room with six guys and split the rent in LA and I, and then, you know, just lots of things, aren't really on the table for me in that way. And so I've learned that you don't need it. You don't need to do that. I think what you actually, what I've realized is that that's actually not maybe the best way, honestly. Yeah.
[00:25:34] Anna Thalman: [00:25:34] Having balanced seems to produce better work and, and
[00:25:38] Kent Thalman: [00:25:38] these, limitations so to speak are actually just like everything. Just like all limitations are actually really, they're actually really productive direction, really helpful. And I've learned to get more done in four hours than most people can get done in eight when I'm focused. And, that's not a bragging thing. It's just, you know, it's you get compelled to do that. It sounds like you guys have [00:26:00] You're at the beginnings of this sort of like, all right, we've just learned, we're both gonna put in what we can and we support each other, but it's going to be more of a constant thing. And I think that'll pay huge dividends in the long-term future.
[00:26:11] Anna Thalman: [00:26:11] I think that a lot of people try to just take it one thing at a time and just say okay, you go for a while and then I'll go for a while and then we'll have kids and then we'll do this. we kind of tried that at first as well. Like I was saying, we sort of tried like, okay, I'm going to stay home and watch the kids. And you're going to work for awhile. And I was just going crazy. I was like, I'm forgetting everything so fast. And it was all I could think about. I was distracted. I don't think I was a better mom because I was always thinking. About something else I wanted to be doing. And I was envious of him even when he was shooting weddings, you know, something that I don't love, but I was still jealous, like, oh, you're out there shooting and eating yummy food. Yeah.
[00:26:53] Kent Thalman: [00:26:53] Well, you do eat well when you shoot weddings.
[00:26:57] Anna Thalman: [00:26:57] And so eventually we just said, we know [00:27:00] we both want to do this, so we just need to both jump in and find our balance. And, so we've always kind of been like, instead of we talk about building a house, instead of just building one wall, you just build all the walls all the way around and it takes longer, but then you have the full structure. It's not.
[00:27:19] Kent Thalman: [00:27:19] Yeah. And it takes longer, but it lasts longer and it's stronger. So. Otherwise it's so it's the Warner brothers lot. It's just whiteboard wall, you know, which would be a really bad situation. Well, it's a really bad situation when the winds of life blow a very, not aerodynamic flat surface, it's just gonna fall right over and that's,
[00:27:40] Anna Thalman: [00:27:40] and also if you live in it, if that's your life and you're living it and it feels empty, no one else has to know that, but you know, it because you're living it. So I feel like I can relate a lot to what you're saying. It's interesting that we kind of swing far on the pendulum and then find something kind of in the middle.
[00:27:57] Emma Sutton: [00:27:57] Yeah. I think the most important thing is [00:28:00] you have, I think starting out, we had this vision of what being an actor needed to look like. We had one end goal of what we had to be very famous living in LA, doing big feature films. You know, there was this one vision and we've just come to realize, it can look different than that for us. It, you know, I've honestly been so impressed by Cooper and. a lot of times as an actor, you feel like your career is completely in other people's hands. You're like, well, I need a casting director to like me. I need an agent to find me auditions. you almost feel like everything needs to be handed to you and then you have to be picked. And that was something that just really bothered us, especially when we moved out to Utah and we knew so many people in the industry and I've been so impressed by Cooper. He's like, I'm going to buy a camera. I'm going to start learning about this. I'm going to start writing a script. And he's just really taking it into his own hands and he was passionate about it. And he's like, I don't like people controlling it. Like I want to have more of a control over, the kinds of things I can do. And so [00:29:00] it's just been really cool to, you know, make it look like what you want to look like. You can't completely put your career in other people's hands. Otherwise you just will never know what could happen.
[00:29:11] Kent Thalman: [00:29:11] I love this so much. that I was going to ask. And I almost didn't want to ask it. Have you guys done any writing?
[00:29:20]Cooper Sutton: [00:29:20] Yeah. Yeah. It's not something that we've done for a long time and are super veterans, but over the last year, a year and a half, we've been writing a lot more. I see some shifts that happened in the world too, which allowed us to kind of change over and write a lot more, which is great.
[00:29:37] Kent Thalman: [00:29:37] COVID was such a blessing for so many of us creatives. I feel
[00:29:43] Cooper Sutton: [00:29:43] opened up kind of a necessity for creative pathways. So it's been really cool to see both of us in our writing styles come out and shaped
[00:29:54] Emma Sutton: [00:29:54] because I think COVID, that was what finally made the switch in my mind, like, okay. We were in New York [00:30:00] city through most of the pandemic and it was like, everything's shut down. there's no films, there's no auditions. What are we going to do? We don't know how long this, you know, shutdown is going to last, let's use it as time to practice. And so I Wrote some little things and, and it was just like, wow, I can actually do this. I never imagined myself even being able to, but you know, it's a start. And so it was great. How finally having that shift in my mind of actually making my own things, being a possibility.
[00:30:30] Kent Thalman: [00:30:30] That's awesome. You know, and that reminds me of, I mean, it's like a somewhat anomaly of an example, but John Krasinski started an acting. He started to write a little bit more and then he did one, I think feature, maybe two. he did a couple actually before he, he landed the director role for a quiet place, which he cast his wife in. Albeit he begged her to be in it, I remember just being thrilled to watch an actual married couple [00:31:00] do a movie. And he was involved as a co-writer. He was, kind of a rewriter on that movie, but his writing passed and given him the experience to be able to do that. And then he had some directing experience, but, you know, he'd kind of taken the initiative to create those skills for himself. And it's like, you don't have to become a director, an actor or director or whatever, but just having those skills, it's like most of the most successful actors in history. And I feel like all filmmakers have some degree of multi-disciplinary skills and so I think that's
[00:31:35] Anna Thalman: [00:31:35] unstoppable and you can write stuff. That's perfect for you. your ideal role in the exact thing that you would want to do. You can write your spouse in if you want, you know, that's so cool.
[00:31:47] Kent Thalman: [00:31:47] Rolling. You know, Brandon. Brenda, our mutual friend wrote a script and because of it, of other reasons that he was not able to
[00:31:54] Anna Thalman: [00:31:54] he cast himself in it and it was a perfect role for him.
[00:31:57] Kent Thalman: [00:31:57] Yeah. And it was incredible. It was an incredible [00:32:00] script and we helped him develop that project for a while and it was, it's super awesome. And it's going to be great when it comes to fruition, but yeah, I think that's really wise. I'm excited to hear that we might have to talk after the podcast episode a little bit more about all is going on there, but, yeah, we did a whole episode on write your own role for not just actors, but anyone who's like feels like they're waiting for someone to make their career happen for them in any degree. And I think surprisingly, almost everyone in the film industry feels that way, except producers and producers, I think, actually feel the same way about their investors. They're like, I need someone to just give me the money and yeah. And then I'll be able to make these movies. And then the director is like, I need a producer to give me the job. And then the actors are like director to hire me or to hire me or whatever writers are. Like, I need someone to buy or option my script. And, and the
[00:32:54] Anna Thalman: [00:32:54] distributors are like, we need a really good film.
[00:32:57] Kent Thalman: [00:32:57] Yeah. We're all just waiting for each other. And then Chris McQuarrie, [00:33:00] if you guys are familiar with who that is, directed, the fifth and sixth mission impossibles, he did this whole awesome. It was Instagram or Twitter. Anyway, social media, you should look it up. Anyway. He talks about how he has a writer, like a seven-year stall in his career because he just, he was expecting something to happen. And after he had enormous success, like I think he got an academy award nod. And then was like, I just had to accept at one point. I'm just going to make movies. I want to be a writer, but if, no, one's going to give me those opportunities, I'm just gonna have to make movies so that I can keep writing movies.
[00:33:34] Cooper Sutton: [00:33:34] That's great. I mean, there's no one who knows what you can do better than yourself. So it's just, it's really kind of foolish to think, well, someone else is going to write this perfect role and then I'll be able to shine, but they're not going to be able to put everything in. I mean, I started out as a tap dancer. And there were very few acting roles that have anything to do with tap in the film industry. So it's just, it's so rare that you find something. If you don't do it yourself.
[00:33:59] Kent Thalman: [00:33:59] I mean, [00:34:00] this is a lot of good information Cooper. I didn't know you started as tap dancing.
[00:34:05] Cooper Sutton: [00:34:05] lots of people do I mean, it's crazy. I mean, to be honest, I'm a better tap dancer than I am an actor
[00:34:12] Emma Sutton: [00:34:12] , but he is a phenomenal tap dancer. It's
[00:34:16] Kent Thalman: [00:34:16] really good. Right. So hopefully not everyone listening to the podcast today is a producer who wants to make Cooper into a famous tap dancing actor, the next gene Kelly, as long
[00:34:25] Anna Thalman: [00:34:25] as he still does it with us.
[00:34:27] Kent Thalman: [00:34:27] I guess that's true. I don't mind if anyone does that. No, you can. You're welcome to him just as long as we get him afterwards.
[00:34:34] Emma Sutton: [00:34:34] And he seems incredibly like crooner, like he's it all, he really is a modern gene kelly,
[00:34:39]Kent Thalman: [00:34:39] a modern triple threat. That's good. Well, we'll talk about that after too.
[00:34:47] Anna Thalman: [00:34:47] So this is interesting because it has actually been a while since we've talked to each other and I was a little bit privy to some of the things you're bringing up. It's interesting to see, where you've come from, where we [00:35:00] were so Cooper and Emma both did, this coaching program with me. And at the time it was just private coaching for six weeks. So not exactly the program that it is today, but, yeah, it was kind of the beta version and I did it with each of them individually, even though they're still living, you know, in the same space. So I don't know, you probably heard a lot of each other's, coaching, but I'm curious, you know, what has changed? kind of can see it, but. What has changed for you? Like before, when we were in New York and I remember that time and I don't want to share anything, you know, that you're not comfortable sharing, so I'll let you share it. What was it like then?
[00:35:43] Kent Thalman: [00:35:43] Anything you're uncomfortable sharing, I'll let you do.
[00:35:49] Anna Thalman: [00:35:49] don't feel obligated to share anything personal. but from then, and then doing the coaching, did you feel like that made any difference in some of the things you've just expressed?
[00:36:00] [00:35:59] Cooper Sutton: [00:35:59] Oh, definitely. I'd say. I remember cause just so everyone knows we were in New York, it was a really slow time. I would say for our careers, when we went through the coaching tip, it was something where I felt stuck. I wasn't booking much and I was really just trying to figure out where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do and everything was up in the air. I felt like. but going through that and just having the opportunity to kind of reflect about myself with someone else that I just would never, normally we do help me realize more and more that I can find solutions to all the things I've just been like frustrated. For example, I, I just didn't understand what I could do to better my career when it was up to other people to cancel it. And I just, I'm so stuck in that rut, but I just try to audition, audition and it never occurred to me to take a step back and think, okay, [00:37:00] well, what else can I do? What other interest do I have that I can still find fulfillment in? While I'm going to just the time and talking with Emma more to actually just like talk about it because it's all bundled up in my head when I'm going through it. Right. I just Never really vocalized it. Never really understood it. And I broke it down. And that's what turned into starting to write my own projects. That's what turned into buying the camera. That's turned into trying to mesh all of my different talents together into a cohesive project. So it really kind of took it apart piece by piece and organized it, I would say. Yeah,
[00:37:43] Emma Sutton: [00:37:43] I'd say for me, it was, it was helpful to talk to someone else about, I think mine was a lot more emotional. I had all of this emotional baggage. I was carrying, worrying so much about what other people were thinking of me. Like I put so much weight on others to tell me [00:38:00] how to feel about myself and about my life. And so I think coaching, model and everything of breaking down, my thoughts. Okay. Where is this coming from? what is an actual truth and what is just my ideas, you know, these things and learning that you can't control, what other people think you can't control, what they do or what they say about you. You're the one that has to decide that stuff for yourself. And so it just helped me take control of that a lot more. Cause I think I was letting my emotions and worries, control a lot of that. And, I was just getting back into acting at that point. I remember I had just quit the full-time job, got a part-time job and was trying to get back into the acting world. And the coaching helped me so much. Just get into a more healthy mindset of taking control of my life, my emotions, my goals, to get into it and prepare to do that.
[00:38:55]Anna Thalman: [00:38:55] Yeah. It's so cool to see what you're doing now because. You know, we didn't [00:39:00] get to that during the coaching, that stuff that you guys took, those tools and extrapolated, and kind of created your own solutions. I remember you being kind of both stuck in those different areas and working through it, but it's cool to see where that has led now down the road. and I'm excited for you. I think you've come to some really great conclusions that will help you take control of your career. So that's exciting.
[00:39:27] Cooper Sutton: [00:39:27] Yeah. It helped us take big steps too, because I don't think had we not taken the time to think about it, that we would've moved, honestly, because we were so just dead set on being amazing in New York and being successful. I think we would have just kind of kept beating the pavement there in a way that really wasn't working for us. and that's when we decided when things shut down, it was just like, okay, we actually had the courage to pack up and move back cross country. Towards the things that we really wanted to do and [00:40:00] film is that, and I feel like as great as New York is, and as much amazing film that happens there, it's also very theater-based. And, and don't know, obviously everyone has their own path, but for us, it was a lot easier to get into film elsewhere, not in New York. And I don't think it would have taken that. We have not thought about that to change.
[00:40:19] Emma Sutton: [00:40:19] I remember talking with Anna, cause I remember right in the beginning, right. When I quit the job and got the part-time job, I told him, I was like, and I think I just want to move to Utah. And I just remember Anna being like, well, why though? are you just running away from a difficult situation? Or do you really want to make this move? And so it helped me to step back, make sure I wasn't running away from New York. And I remember, so I stepped back, I took some workshops there. I, you know, really tried to explore. There. And it was during the, the, you know, it was right after the pandemic had started, so there wasn't a ton going on, but I still tried to grasp as much as New York as I could. [00:41:00] So now having left, I felt like we really gave it a shot. you never want to leave and then be like, oh, but what if, but, you know, I remember we made the pros and cons lists and like, you know, all the things to make sure we were moving for the right reasons. And you know, and so now it really feels like it was a good thought out decision and we're really happy with it.
[00:41:21]Anna Thalman: [00:41:21] Yeah. I love that. I remember, you know, a lot of times we want to just change our circumstances and we believe oh, if I just lived somewhere else, if I just had a camera, if I just had whatever, my life would be so much easier. And I love that you guys did those things, but not because you thought it would change everything necessarily, but because you liked your reasons And you didn't believe that it would make you happier. You, you can make choices just because you want to, or just because it's, I don't know. It's hard to explain, but it's like, you're not just changing the circumstance. You're changing yourself and then changing your circumstance.
[00:41:59] Kent Thalman: [00:41:59] Yeah. [00:42:00] And I think I've experienced this a lot where I'm, often also prone to worrying about what other people think of me. And get caught up reading about film makers or film making the way certain people run workflow on set or the way certain directors manage sets the way certain people. Logistically do things. And for some reason, whenever I read anything, I'm like, oh, that's the way it's supposed to be. That's the should way to do it. You know? and I feel like you guys are like, this is how you're supposed to do it as an actor. The acting like you were saying, the acting success looks like X, Y, Z. And if it's not that then it's, it's not legit. It's not real. It doesn't count. It doesn't count because no one will look at me and say this counts. I don't know. I don't know. I don't wanna speak for you, but that is definitely something I feel like I've struggled with. And what I've realized is I dunno, there's only like infinity ways that count. What really counts is are you doing exactly what you [00:43:00] love doing? Are you reaching people? And are you making a, livable living out of it? And I don't cap myself. I'm not just like, as long as I can pay my bills. I'm like, I have every intention of being as successful as, you know, sky's the limit, but, but there's no prescribed way. It must happen. on good days. I remember that. And so it's like, and so, you know, I think what's where we've started to kind of, when we make those bold decision, it sounds like you guys deciding to move or Anna and I deciding we're trying to get this feature film funded. you know, we have this window of time where the next opportunities next September. So let's in the next three months, write a script and shoot it for a shoe string and make a feature now making those kinds of crazy decisions or even more like personal decisions, like we're going to buy a house right now. It doesn't seem very possible that like, let's just do it, you know? But these big, scary things where you're like moving to Georgia, you know, big moves or something, I've I hear people bring up a lot. In fact, a lot of the people you've coached Anna have made [00:44:00] big moves or are in the process of making big moves. Hmm across country, not just because they're seeking better circumstances or opportunity, but because they've decided this feels better for me, this feels better for my family. This feels better for my career. and for one reason or another, they aren't letting themselves think it was possible or appropriate or the way you should do it or whatever. And, and you get over that and you just say, no, this is what's right for me. And I'm going to do that different thing. And I'm going to go to Utah or Georgia or New York or LA, or who cares where you go, you know, you figure out the best place for you. And then you, you make that work.
[00:44:34] Anna Thalman: [00:44:34] You find the solutions that's uniquely tailored to your situation as opposed to what everyone else does. That seems like the standard thing to do not
[00:44:43] Kent Thalman: [00:44:43] make bad art. Anyway, if we just copy what everyone else does, because we think it's the way we should be doing it. And the more we embrace our own uniqueness, and we say Well, this is kind of how I do it. , and it feels really right to do it this strange way that no one else saw
[00:44:56] Anna Thalman: [00:44:56] or that no one else has done. well, we're just going to try it.
[00:45:00] [00:44:59] Kent Thalman: [00:44:59] that's actually why people usually go to sensationals, cause it's like, that's so interesting, that different way of doing it. So, yeah. anyway, long tangent there from Kent. but, but yeah, I guess I just, it gets stoked when I hear about people that are like, there's these big life decisions that are really hard to make. And then you apply these tools of the model and, these big life decisions happen and they happen faster and it's exciting to see those hard things happen to materialize. And so, I don't know. I'm excited about that for you guys. So,
[00:45:34] Anna Thalman: [00:45:35] that's kind of like your, your before and after. In the middle. Were there any like big takeaways that stand out to you that we haven't mentioned?
[00:45:45] Cooper Sutton: [00:45:45] Well, it's, it's crazy. Cause I mean, it's so hard to define the middle when you look at them. But I think the greatest thing about it all is you just learn whether it's like finding balance and not taking breaks and things like that. But each little step you [00:46:00] take is a reassurance that you can take steps. And it just builds on each other because as soon as we decided to move and every time we've made a big decision, it has just snowballed future things. and it doesn't always happen in the career wise or the relationship itself, but just in life in general, where one good thing always leads to like seven more and it just is incredible to see how much happier we are now after we went and took that step to believe in ourselves. And really understand what we needed. And once we did that, I mean, just in the career to thinking of New York, I did one show there. And then I came here and just the amount of auditions in general skyrocketed and so many more. And it's not gonna be the case for everybody, but that is what happened for me and for her as well. So it's, I think the middle was just filled with [00:47:00] laughter and surprise at all of these things that were happening. I do believe that that happens every time that you choose to invest in yourself and believe in you and whatever you've got.
[00:47:13] Emma Sutton: [00:47:13] Yeah. Just taking the step. I think it's always the hardest it's just to start, I, I know like whenever one of us is wanting to do something , he's like I should write, but I don't have an idea. I told him, I just type something Start putting words down, like the hardest thing is just starting. And so I think that was, yeah, the middle was just, yeah. Believing in ourselves to take a step. Even if it was the smallest thing of watching a workshop or something, it was just, it's those little steps that you take to believe in yourself, but then eventually lead to the bigger things that you're like, wow. I didn't think I could ever get here.
[00:47:51]Kent Thalman: [00:47:51] Yeah. You know what I think of when I hear you guys express this idea of all these little things like compound and they actually have these ripple effects in like a good career [00:48:00] choice can actually improve a marriage or a marriage improvement can actually, you know, change your, your relationship with your career and, all these other parts of your life. And, I think about, I do this, I think at least once an episode, right. Where I've got this great idea, I got this really important thing to contribute and I space it. the thing. Was, should we come back to you? Okay. Come back to me, go to the other students in the class. I'll be ready to share. I'll be ready to share when you get back around
[00:48:36] Anna Thalman: [00:48:36] good this there's four of us. So we've got people it's okay. You don't usually, I don't feel like you usually forget stuff.
[00:48:46] Kent Thalman: [00:48:46] You just forgetting.
[00:48:47] Anna Thalman: [00:48:47] I'm the one that always happens. well, I was thinking about what you were saying, Emma, I think for a lot of people, the hardest thing is just to take that first step [00:49:00] forward.
[00:49:00] Kent Thalman: [00:49:00] Now I Just remember
[00:49:03] Anna Thalman: [00:49:03] say it before you forget,
[00:49:07]Kent Thalman: [00:49:07] the, the, wait, wait, um, oh, so Brooke Castillo. Who is one of Anna's principal coaches in her certification programs through Burke's life, coach school, talks about learning new skills. And we always worry about like, what's the most important skill to learn. And she kind of describes, well, maybe our ability to learn new skills quickly and deeply is one of the most important skills to learn. And then you'll be able to learn all the other important things that are individually useful. And what you guys are describing is like, what is the best decision to make? And it's really, actually, maybe the skill of making decisions and feeling confident in those decisions and, being able to make big or scary decisions. The better you get at that. you guys were kind of [00:50:00] expressing that it was like once we made that first, really big decision, suddenly we were able to start making changes in our lives more deliberately. anyway, that that's kind of. I guess maybe some of what I was hearing in that where like, our ability to learn our ability to make decisions is maybe more important than the specific decisions we make or the specific skills we learn. because you can keep that with you for your whole life. It's like, doing things to make money isn't as important as learning and understanding money deeply, or having a skill that is super valuable because you could bankrupt Steven Spielberg. He's gonna be a millionaire next year because he knows how to make movies really, really well. and like people will pay him millions of dollars just to do one film. And then he'll, he's probably got really good investing his money over the years. And so he'll probably know how to invest that money in a way that's really productive. So he's learned how to deal with money as opposed to just making a few dollars and like scraping it. It's like a third metaphor. I was trying to extend the learning [00:51:00] skills, making decisions, and also just like understanding money. The money part was maybe a little,
[00:51:07] Anna Thalman: [00:51:07] no, I think you're saying he, you know, he could lose everything, but still have his skills and he'd be able to make it back.
[00:51:13] Kent Thalman: [00:51:13] Right. Right. I mean, , even if you make a bad decision, it's like, you're still good at making the hard decisions. And so you just keep doing that and you can't lose it
[00:51:20] Anna Thalman: [00:51:20] well, and interestingly enough, I think a lot of people who do go through the coaching, we talk a little bit about decision-making and, I think also just understanding where your brain is making decisions from, is it a place of fear or is it something you feel confident or good about is helpful? But what's interesting is I think it's hard for some people to, before they have those tools, make the decision to learn them in the first place. And I'm just kind of curious, what made you decide to do it because. I mean, did you even know what life coaching was? I think a lot of people are like, what is that? That seems really weird. Like, what were your doubts or why did you decide to do it?
[00:52:00] [00:51:59] Emma Sutton: [00:51:59] Nah, I think I had heard like one other person I knew had kind of started life coaching. And she, I remember when she talked about it, she had said she had tried therapy and therapy didn't work for her. So then she went to life coaching and that's what made her finally changed her life. And I was like, that's kind of confusing. So is it like therapy? Like I, I didn't really get what it was. And so then when you came to us and were like, Hey, I want you to try out this, you know, class I'm trying out and I want, you know, to help you with, to say to me, you know, it just sounded interesting how you were able to explain it and, you know, just taking steps in your life and understanding yourself better. just felt good, especially cause I had, you know, things had just changed in my life with going from the full-time job to the part-time and getting into the back end of the acting world where I did feel unsteady in my life. And so it just made sense to try to, you know, take control of that and learn how to do that. [00:53:00]
[00:53:00] Cooper Sutton: [00:53:00] and I honestly, I don't think I've really known much about life coaching at all. and the only thing is, as you grow up in a lot of places too, therapy gets such a bad rep where it's just like, man, you're broken if you go to therapy. So things like that or that kind of image, I think the grew up with a lot of that myself. but then learning about what you were teaching and all of those things. I think the thing that really drew me to it is the opportunity to get out of my own head and that, that opportunity is so rare for a lot of people. I feel like because that's all we're in constantly is our own head and our own thoughts and our own mind. But the idea to really have someone else, let them in a little bit, let them see what is inside your head and to kind of understand how other people see the world too, is incredibly helpful. And it's very, it builds community with human beings in general, to you to see that as much [00:54:00] as we have our unique personalities and our own thoughts, there's also a ton of similarities all around. So that coaching helped me connect to a lot of people in that way, too. So I didn't feel like I was just this lone crazy actor trying to make my way in life, but,
[00:54:20] Emma Sutton: [00:54:20] but I will say therapy is important. And I know therapy, definitely has its place for, you know, when people need that specifically. But I think life coaching just felt more like. I don't know, it didn't feel as heavy. I feel like therapy. Sometimes. When you think about going to therapy, it feels a bit more heavy and things like this, this just felt more like day to day. And I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:54:45]Anna Thalman: [00:54:45] It's usually like the distinction is where your baseline is kind of where you're starting from, like therapies. If you're a little more in, a, I'm not functioning the way I normally want to,
[00:54:57] Kent Thalman: [00:54:57] or even like, or I'm not functioning [00:55:00] hardly at all. I,
[00:55:01] Anna Thalman: [00:55:01] it's hard for me to wake up or it's hard for me to, you know, go to work and, and then life coaching is you know, I'm doing the things, but I just want to
[00:55:10] Kent Thalman: [00:55:10] less about I'm not functioning and more about, I don't feel like I'm progressing
[00:55:13] Anna Thalman: [00:55:13] or getting the results I want.
[00:55:14] Kent Thalman: [00:55:14] Yeah. And so, think you guys explain that pretty well. I think our exposure maybe was more critical to life coaching. Honestly. I think we always ask people this, so did you think it was like really weird when you heard about it, because that's exactly where we were coming from. You were like, what the heck is maybe like the most pretentious thing we've ever heard. So it's, been interesting to watch Hannah become one and, it's been pretty life-changing for us, need it. Like, sometimes I'm just like, and I need you to coach me. And yeah. I mean, we talked about that on podcasts before, but, Just for Cooper and Emma, it's just, it's very interesting than coached by your wife. And especially when you're getting coached on your relationship, it's like, you [00:56:00] know, but she's a particularly talented coach, I think, in that she's able to maintain some objectivity when, when coaching and then like the coaching concludes and she's like, so what's going on? let's talk. Let's fight. No, that doesn't happen. But I think that, it's yeah, I think it's been kind of fun to watch, but think that everyone talks about everyone in LA has a shrink is what everyone says. And like you said, there's nothing wrong with therapy. And we really, I think culturally, I actually think culturally we're evolving past this, like, oh, it's bad to get help mentality. but I also think that. there's a lot of people that turn to therapy because they feel stuck in the sense that, we're going into a very competitive field. I mean, you guys go into acting and it's very competitive and sometimes the progress feels slow and we're usually comparing ourselves to celebrities, whether we're directing or acting or writing, we're comparing ourselves to the best of the best. [00:57:00] And then we feel like there's something wrong with us, like you were saying. And then when you can get out of, you can get some perspective on how your brain is working. I really liked what you said about this community with other human beings that like there's so much similarity, all generally healthy brains function, the same, evolutionarily speaking, where, we feel fear for certain things. We react certain ways our brain will try and find danger or problems or, you know, analyze things critically. And sometimes it's just not helpful. And when you can step out and see what it's doing, you're like, okay, The brain's working, it's doing exactly what it was designed to do. I'm able to just kind of see it more objectively and then make a better decision because I'm like I get what my brain is doing and I get why I'm feeling all these feelings. And I, just, and on that same note, it's kind of cool because Anna will break down scripts as a director based on the model, because she's like, what's this person believe and what does that creating for them emotionally? And that's causing them to react this way, which the other character is going to perceive this way. And this is because their [00:58:00] whole paradigm is built around this thing. , I think great writers have been doing that to some degree. It's just an interesting lens to do it through, you know, you get scenes where when you watch them or you read them, you're like this character literally says the same thing. I think the whole scene, they just sort of change the vocabulary, but they literally are saying the same thing in different ways.
[00:58:22] Anna Thalman: [00:58:22] I often feel like the character arc is a belief shift. there's something that a character believes that. motivates all the actions that you're taking and the things that they're saying. And then towards the end, they find a new belief. And so it's like that belief shift actually is a whole character arc and it changes everything. And that's, what's so cool about coaching being combined with film because we love stories and we love character arcs. And we also love to have our own shifts where it's like, oh, wow. That made a huge difference. When I changed this one thought and I love working with my coach as well. Having that outside perspective, like you were talking about [00:59:00] where she'll point out something that I just could not notice because I'm in my own head and she'll point it out and be like, look at what your brain's doing here. And we'll just laugh at it. Like, it's just, it's like, oh, wow, that's really funny because. Once you have the perspective, it seems so obvious, but when you're watching a movie and you watch the character, it's like so obvious, like, oh, they just need to learn this or whatever.
[00:59:25] Kent Thalman: [00:59:25] Yeah. Like Marlin is just way too uptight about Nemo and he just needs to let him like live his life, man. Stop being such a helicopter dad. And it's so easy to see that from the outside, but you don't see it. Don't. Yeah. And so it's this seismic shift and it's like experiencing a movie plot twist,
[00:59:44] Anna Thalman: [00:59:44] having someone who has that skill of being able to stand on the sidelines and tell you, you know your form here now, I'm going to an athletic athletic member. Your form here is doing this thing.
[00:59:58] Kent Thalman: [00:59:58] that's a coaching metaphor [01:00:00] there. Yeah.
[01:00:01] Anna Thalman: [01:00:01] Anyway, now I lost it, but I do, I love that. That's part of the value of having. Having a coach or having those tools so that you, you even mentioned, you guys talked to each other and can get everything of your brain out. Do you guys still do that? Or what does that look like for you?
[01:00:21]Cooper Sutton: [01:00:21] just waiting for that play to happen. I said we have leads that we're so good at. And then we have times where we just get really tired and we don't do it where sometimes we read books together and we'll just have great conversations of what we both feel about certain things and what we want to do with our life and things like that. And then there's times where. We just really, really don't and we just,
[01:00:49]Emma Sutton: [01:00:49] yeah, it's almost like we forgot everything and I just get sad and mad and he'll try to like talk me off the ledge. And I'm like, no, just let me be sad. And [01:01:00] yeah. so it definitely comes in waves, but it's nice when we're on the same wavelength and we can have these really great conversations of like, wow, I'm like sad today. And this is what I'm feeling. And he's like, well, have you thought about this? And I think this is where it might be coming from for you. And wow, I didn't think about that. So it just, it definitely, it comes in waves of. We have our weeks when we're just in sync and then somewhere we're just like, you make me angry cause you're in this room.
[01:01:31] Anna Thalman: [01:01:31] Yeah. It's so cool to see it. I mean, it was cool to coach both of you because you are married to each other. And that I think is the first time. Well, it wasn't the last time, but it was the first time I think that I had done that before. And, for us, obviously that's the case as well, where we can kind of remind each other, like. he'll remind me, like, that's just a thought that's optional.
[01:01:56] Kent Thalman: [01:01:56] that's usually met with resistance, sort of like [01:02:00] informal marital coaching. I don't think is always the most productive. if we sit down and we really just say like, Anna, I need you to coach me. And then she's able to put her coaching hat on. But if it's like in the heat of the moment, it's like, that's a thought that you just stopped thinking it,
[01:02:13]Anna Thalman: [01:02:13] but I don't know what else. to think
[01:02:16] Kent Thalman: [01:02:16] that's usually met with resistance. Yeah. I don't recommend it.
[01:02:22] Emma Sutton: [01:02:22] Yeah. Well, it's funny. When we were being coached, I had the thought, I was like, oh no. Now in our arguments, he's going to try to life coach me. And like knew better though. He never tried
[01:02:34] Cooper Sutton: [01:02:34] treaded lightly on that.
[01:02:40] Kent Thalman: [01:02:40] That's really funny. I remember hearing a stress, a stress therapy guy. Oh. He was actually as a teacher, a professor BYU, we were shooting a course on stress management and he said, When someone is really, really high in terms of emotion, like emotional volatility, if you ask them to do math in their head, like do some math, [01:03:00] it shifts the portion of the brain that they're using. And they're able to shift into over a more logical portion of their brain. And he said this, so they'll do this with children. He said it'll help them calm down. And they become really emotionally of all time. I said, and I said, that's really interesting. Have you ever tried that with your wife? And he was like, no, I don't know. That would be a bad idea. Let's just do some math in your head, honey right now. And you'll calm us down,
[01:03:19] Cooper Sutton: [01:03:19] that usually works in the reverse for me. Where if someone tells me to do math, anything, I immediately get very angry.
[01:03:26] Kent Thalman: [01:03:26] She's like comfortable. It's funny. That's awesome.
[01:03:31] Anna Thalman: [01:03:31] Well, it's amazing. when we are emotional or under high pressure, you just like your logical brain turns off. we actually just played a game. I think it was called a Nomia or a Nomia. I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but that word actually means like that's thing where your brain kind of turns off under pressure.
[01:03:49] Kent Thalman: [01:03:49] Oh yeah. The card game was like,
[01:03:50] Anna Thalman: [01:03:50] yeah. It's a card
[01:03:51] Kent Thalman: [01:03:51] game, two shapes match. You, you have to say the category that's written on the other person's card. So if we both have circles and her card says [01:04:00] like
[01:04:00] Anna Thalman: [01:04:00] animal, we'll do that one animal noise
[01:04:06] Kent Thalman: [01:04:06] if her card says animal noise. I have to say like, yeah, like dog barking or something.
[01:04:12] Anna Thalman: [01:04:12] Before I say what's on his card, which might say like the type of food, you know?
[01:04:16] Kent Thalman: [01:04:16] So she has to say like broccoli, before I say dog barking. But like, literally when you see that they're matching your brain just shuts down. Like, and you're just like,
[01:04:25] Anna Thalman: [01:04:25] you're like the timer. And so you're like, I can't think of a single animal noise, like or a single food.,
[01:04:30] Kent Thalman: [01:04:30] instantly blank. And I literally blurted out like the most absurd sound. Like, I didn't even say a word. I just went like,
[01:04:39] Anna Thalman: [01:04:39] it was animal sound. Most everyone was like
[01:04:42] Kent Thalman: [01:04:42] I guess that counted. Cause they said it was an animal sound, I literally have no idea what animal sound I was trying to make. I literally just made, I think it was a Kent. Yes. And, uh, that's just how far my brain had shut down under pressure. So [01:05:00] yeah.
[01:05:00] Anna Thalman: [01:05:00] So funny. I blurted out stuff that didn't make any sense as well. I remember.
[01:05:04] Kent Thalman: [01:05:04] This is what happens on film sets. I think
[01:05:06] Anna Thalman: [01:05:06] it was like nuts. The category was a nut. And I said like a bean or something doesn't make any sense
[01:05:17] Kent Thalman: [01:05:17] yeah, but on sets, I remember I'll do this, like I'll imagine the whole movie and feel really confident and then you get to set and it's just gone blank. Totally. You just draw a total blank. Yeah. It just shows the, we really do need to do some homework before you show up and write some notes for yourself to get back. I don't know if you guys experienced that as actors where you're like, maybe you break down a script, you for yourself, or, I don't know this is, maybe too much, but like, I just wonder if actors feel the same thing where they're just like, I memorize the lines and they're just gone. Or I know how I was going to approach this, but I'm doing it. And I know that, I had all these thoughts for how it was going to like put these things together or whatever. Maybe that's not even that productive as an actor really just cause you depend so much on your. People that you're doing the scene with. I feel [01:06:00] like, but I don't know. I'm sure you guys have had long discussions about the approach to such such dilemmas, but ours is just like this logistical thing where we're like, where was I going to put the camera? I don't even know,
[01:06:11] Emma Sutton: [01:06:11] uh, it definitely happens. Rest is accurate. I remember like my first film shoot out here in Utah was, you know, first thing I'd done for a while. Cause I didn't do much in New York. And I remember Cooper, like his biggest piece of advice to me, it was just like, just really have your lines down because you're going to show up on set the lights, the Mike, but you know, there's gonna be a lot going on and you, you might forget your lines. So just make sure, you know, we're really prepared. It even is as simple as that, it's just forgetting your lines even when you had worked to memorize it. Cause there are all those stresses on set and, and things like that.
[01:06:46] Kent Thalman: [01:06:46] Yeah. Lyrics are hard for me. I did some musical theater and like, I just. Can't memorize words. I just admire people to memorize things.
[01:06:56] Anna Thalman: [01:06:56] I think You're really good at remembering words.
[01:06:58] Kent Thalman: [01:06:58] I remember, [01:07:00] I remember things that I hear audibly, like memorizing words on a page is really hard. And with songs it's a little trickier, even though I hear it audibly, it's like, it's poetically often they'll repeat each other, but not exact repetition, you know? It's like the nuances are just finer. And so like, the thing in verse two that you were supposed to say in verse one, it's just so like tricky. And, yeah, if I was like quoting a movie that I can quote movies, because you've just heard it. If you watched Lord of the rings so many times, you can remember that really cool thing that that person said, you know, but, you haven't seen the movie when you're an actor. so I don't feel like I would be able to do that as well, because I'd just be going off like, you know, black and white paper, Anyway, we could probably talk to you guys all night.
[01:07:47] Anna Thalman: [01:07:47] I'm sure we could yeah, we won't keep you forever, but are there any finishing thoughts that you want to share and thinking about our audience, you know, someone out there who maybe feels stuck or [01:08:00] feels like they don't have control over their lives or they don't know how to move forward? what advice would you give to them? Or is there anything we haven't touched on that might help someone?
[01:08:11]Emma Sutton: [01:08:11] I guess my biggest piece of advice for anybody out there that might be a married couple in the industry. the thing that I have to remind myself is that on those days where you are comparing yourself or, you know, like even when we're, for all of our, self-tape all our dishes right now are self-tapes. And it has been amazing because we are each other's directors and it's really helpful to have that outside look. But then sometimes when I'm in that mindset of competition, I start thinking like, oh, he's only giving me that note because he thinks he's better than me. He knows better than me. And so he doesn't think I'm good, you know? And I start going down this road, but you just have to remind yourself at the end of the day, like he loves me or like, she loves me. She wants what's best for me. He wants what's best for me. And you just have to remind yourself of that instead of, I think I [01:09:00] start looking into every little thing he does and I'm like, well, why did he do that? Why did he do that? And it's like, we're both on our own careers, but together. So I don't know. You have to like step outside of your, relationships sometimes see like, okay, where is he coming from? Why is he doing that? And kind of with the coaching, like. Break down what's happening with them. instead of always going to the first thought of like he's against me or, you know, like, yeah, I think that was helpful.
[01:09:30] Kent Thalman: [01:09:30] No, that is helpful I struggle often with this thing and is really good at it. I actually think we can't know what other people are thinking. Right. And so it's the skill of assuming positive intent, can be really hard and competition ruins most things, except sports really helps with sports, but, it doesn't help with sports if you're competing with your teammates. And we have to remember yeah, that we're on the same team and that's something, I think that changed for me. Like I think it was very easy for me as a film student to feel competitive [01:10:00] against my classmates and other people. And I've learned like if I had the power to make any one of my people that I've worked with. Super successful. That would be a win for all of us, because if we're all tight and we're all working together, and one of us has this big opportunity happen for them, you could say, wow, they're going to leave me in the dust and take that spot that I could have gotten. Or you could say wow, look at all these opportunities that could open up for me now, because that actor or that writer or that director, or that person just got these great opportunities and that's a win for all of us. And so for obvious reasons, I've invested heavily in Anna because I know that if she kind of has to take me with her, so I really want her to be successful. And so, and when she could, leave me behind, I guess, but I don't think she will, but she's told me she won't. So I'm just going on that. But, yeah, and so I, I really appreciate that honest answer and I think that's, it's something that I think everybody struggles with to some degree either whether they're married to that person or not. It's like, I think [01:11:00] we, when we assume positive intent and also. take positive intent for ourselves and, help people, you know, that's I think that can be really, really awesome and powerful.
[01:11:11] Anna Thalman: [01:11:11] Yeah. Even that line you said on our own together, I thought that might even be a good podcast title for this one, but yeah, it kind of
[01:11:19] Kent Thalman: [01:11:19] you just blew it. You just said it it's like saying the trailer, like the movie title in the trailer. It's a megaladon. I shouldn't have done that. Sorry. That was rude. I liked John troll, Tom, he's a great filmmaker. I actually, I grew up liking
[01:11:38] Anna Thalman: [01:11:38] actually that line, like the, dichotomy between we all want to be unique and different and we are, and we also want to be United and together and figuring out how those two fit together is. I think a great challenge of marriage
[01:11:55] Kent Thalman: [01:11:55] period and whether you're in the same career or not, or
[01:11:58] Anna Thalman: [01:11:58] even working as a [01:12:00] team, you know, as a crew or with the cast, finding how you fit together that way it can be difficult.
[01:12:05] Kent Thalman: [01:12:05] Yeah. So Cooper, what was your closing Sage advice before we,
[01:12:11] Cooper Sutton: [01:12:11] yeah, my, my main thought I think that we haven't, well, we've kind of touched on already, but it's just to recognize the own barriers that we put up in our life because we make so many excuses or so many reasons where we say or compare ourselves to the celebrities way. We don't have this. So we can't do that. We can't do this, so we'll never be this. And if we really take a step back and focus on what we're thinking and say, what are my thoughts on this? What barriers am I putting up myself? We can start to whittle away at those because honestly, we're all filmmakers and there is no one in the world right now who can't be a filmmaker in some way. Because if they can't afford a camera, they can write little storyboard on some piece of paper, if they can't afford anything, they can start making a little script. They can start acting out [01:13:00] characters in their mind and they can work from that spot to get to where they want to go. And that's one thing that I had to realize is where I thought I don't have the money. I don't have the connections yet. So I can't. write These are all just barriers. We put ourselves in, be aware of those, take them down one by one. And you can literally take tons of steps no matter where you are.
[01:13:23]Anna Thalman: [01:13:23] Yeah. I love that. I love that. Well, I think that those barriers, first of all, a lot of times we don't see them, because we've created them ourselves. We don't know that they're there. So it's first recognizing it. And then also like, It requires us to become someone different to overcome them. we have to become the person who can overcome that obstacle. And I think a lot of people just want to say, like, here's the to-do list. You just do these things and you'll have success, but it's not about what you do as much as who you are, because if you become the person who knows how to overcome that obstacle, and then you know how to overcome the next [01:14:00] obstacle, then you eventually have overcome all the obstacles and you have your goal. that's all that's between you and your goal is those obstacles
[01:14:08] Kent Thalman: [01:14:08] but the todo list is unique. So, you know, you have to come from it from like, you know, no one can prescribe that for you.
[01:14:14]Anna Thalman: [01:14:14] Obstacles kind of become the to-do lists. They become your like first I need to develop whatever skill I need to overcome this obstacle. And then the next one becomes the next one. And those obstacles are actually the stepping stones.
[01:14:27] Kent Thalman: [01:14:27] Yeah. It's the direct path. It's the obstacles. That's interesting. well you guys, ah, man, maybe we'll do like a part two. We'll pretend like we recorded it the next week, but we'll just record it right now. I'm just kidding. No, but yeah. And so you guys is super great having you guys on the podcast, we're really, really grateful for your honest insights and experiences. and we're just also grateful that, we get to associate with you guys and what you guys progress and, we're. Where'd [01:15:00] you like big fans, so we will continue to stay in touch with you guys. And, just I guess, thanks again.
[01:15:07] Cooper Sutton: [01:15:07] Thank you so much for having us on. It's been great to talk to you really appreciate it.
[01:15:11] Emma Sutton: [01:15:11] Thank you.
[01:15:12] Anna Thalman: [01:15:12] All right, thanks everybody. And we'll see you next time. if you want a successful career making feature films and a happy family at the same time, visit invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily, and you can apply for our next enrollment window in the film and family academy, which closes July 1st, 2021. We only accept a select group of qualifying filmmakers each quarter.
[01:15:39] Kent Thalman: [01:15:39] If you qualify, you will receive private mentorship. In addition to lifetime access to our library of courses, and our alumni are already realizing major career milestones and seeing dramatic transformations in their personal relationships. So if you don't want those results, don't apply.
[01:15:53]Anna Thalman: [01:15:53] If you do visit invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily and click apply before July 1st this [01:16:00] year. Thanks so much.
[01:16:01] Kent Thalman: [01:16:01] Bye.
[01:16:02] Anna Thalman: [01:16:02] See you next time.