Film and Family

Ep. 41 - Finishing and Having Fun with James Hall

June 17, 2021
Film and Family
Ep. 41 - Finishing and Having Fun with James Hall
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Film and Family
Ep. 41 - Finishing and Having Fun with James Hall
Jun 17, 2021

Come join us today with James Hall and learn how to generate your own motivation, start AND finish a feature film script, and set your own boundaries, so you can have fun and stay healthy. Come see how James did it and is still doing it today. 

There are only two weeks left for enrollment in The Film and Family Academy for select filmmakers. Enrollment closes July 1st, 2021. Apply at www.invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily

This podcast is owned and sponsored by Invisible Mansion Pictures. For more resources, visit us at: www.invisiblemansion.com

Show Notes Transcript

Come join us today with James Hall and learn how to generate your own motivation, start AND finish a feature film script, and set your own boundaries, so you can have fun and stay healthy. Come see how James did it and is still doing it today. 

There are only two weeks left for enrollment in The Film and Family Academy for select filmmakers. Enrollment closes July 1st, 2021. Apply at www.invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily

This podcast is owned and sponsored by Invisible Mansion Pictures. For more resources, visit us at: www.invisiblemansion.com

Ep. 41 - Finishing and Having Fun with James Hall

[00:00:00] Kent Thalman: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Kent 

[00:00:01] Anna Thalman: [00:00:01] and I'm Anna. 

[00:00:02] Kent Thalman: [00:00:02] And this is film and family, a podcast about feature filmmaking for professionals in the film industry with families hit subscribe to never miss an episode.

[00:00:10]Anna Thalman: [00:00:10] Let's jump right in. 

[00:00:11] Kent Thalman: [00:00:12] All right. So today on the podcast, we've got James Hall. James is longtime collaborator of ours, in fact, and a fellow Brigham young university film school graduate. He is super talented from day one. We've admired his work. He. put out short content in, school that was really stand out. it was often surprising in one way or another. and I don't mean that facetiously, like it was often very bold or, he just worked really hard or he had really creative approaches to filmmaking that we always liked. he also is an alum of the first wave of beta. Film and family academy, film and family academy students. Yeah. Whatever you want to call him. So he's kind of an alumni of that as well. And, James was awesome because, he really did [00:01:00] experience quite the transformation. We were just thrilled to see what a powerful effect. the model has not only in our lives, but in anyone who really takes it seriously. Practices it, or kind of goes through the coaching and puts it into practice. how powerful and effect them all can have anyone. So, James, will talk a little bit in this episode about his film that he's currently working on and how the model helped him get to where he is today, as well as the periphery effects that the model and those principles had had on other aspects of his life, personal and professional.

[00:01:34] Anna Thalman: [00:01:34] And not only is he a talented filmmaker, but he also is just someone who attracts a lot of talented people, because he's a joy to hang out with. I think you'll really enjoy this episode and getting to know him. So with no further ado, here we go.

[00:01:49]James Hall: [00:01:49] I got it. Cause I got it or leave meeting. It's like, oh boy,

[00:01:56]Anna Thalman: [00:01:56] this is a good start. All right, you [00:02:00] guys, we have our good friend James Hall with us on the podcast today and he is a film writer and director. He's working on a feature film right now. he went to film school, same place we did at BYU. And anything else that. Is important to know about you, James

[00:02:24]James Hall: [00:02:24] my first time every having an introduction 

[00:02:26] Kent Thalman: [00:02:26] is, is there anything else, like significant or noteworthy that you want to put on your eharmony account here? Noteworthy.

[00:02:33] James Hall: [00:02:33] eharmony, haha

[00:02:34] Kent Thalman: [00:02:34] he fought off a shark anyway. I'll put down an adrenaline junkie 

[00:02:44]James Hall: [00:02:44] for real 

[00:02:46] Kent Thalman: [00:02:46] well, thanks for coming onto the show, James. we are just big fans, first of all of your sad and, uh, we also just, we, went [00:03:00] to school together, so we've just admired your work pretty much forever. So thanks for jumping on. And we're excited to talk to you about well, a little bit about some of your history and also just about what you're working on and where you're going with some of the stuff that you're doing. So, could we kick it off with a question how. Did you fall in love with film?

[00:03:23] James Hall: [00:03:23] Well, it's an ongoing affair, I guess. My love affair with film.. That's my autobiography. Put it on my tab. that's a really good question. And I think like it happens in installments, you could say like, Hey, it was that one time that I was watching, you know, Lord of the rings and it was the fellowship of the ring. And I was so angry because I didn't know that it was. A trilogy. And so I was expecting it to end and then, oh wait, no, everyone's going to die. Or some people are gonna die. So people get kidnapped or we're just going to leave you on a cliffhanger. [00:04:00] And that was kind of challenging to me as a nine-year-old. And so I wanted to know more and that kind of created more of an intrigue and kind of bond with filmmaking and figuring out how did they do this and where is the story going to go? And how did it make me feel this way? And I think that happens for many different films, especially as you, you know, continue watching. And so that was probably one of the first big ones, or I guess you could really, really, you want to go real back. They would be in lion king. As a kid, I loved that one. That was so great. You know, and there's probably something like that. every year or every, you know, couple of months where you're just like, wow, how did they do that? Or, you know, it made me feel this way and then it's something new. So it's kind of cinema, I guess, in that way is a little bit like a person. Sweet, surprising. 

[00:04:59] Kent Thalman: [00:04:59] Yeah. So you [00:05:00] just said that it's like this ongoing thing and that every couple months you see something that kind of makes you fall back in love with it. What, what's the most recent. If I can make it more of a recency question, as opposed to it, 

[00:05:12] Anna Thalman: [00:05:12] I was wondering that too. You said every few months or a year or so. 

[00:05:16] James Hall: [00:05:16] Yeah. okay. This was an interesting one. so we're in Oklahoma city and I'm with Eric Naaman and, Cameron Babcock. And they took Dean's horror class, way back at BYU days. And they showed me Texas chainsaw massacre, which I was hesitant to watch. Cause I'm like I don't do the slasher thing, had no interest in watching it. And I was like, wow, there's a whole lot more than what the genre, the seed of what that film began and what those genre grew into is very deceiving because what it starts out as is a very interesting commentary. On, [00:06:00] actually like carnivores meat, eating kind of thing. And it eventually just goes, you know, and that's kind of what, you know, you think of the slasher genre today, but the beginning was very interesting. I was very intrigued and, Cameron introduced me to that. 

[00:06:21] Kent Thalman: [00:06:21] You're talking about the seventies one, right? 

[00:06:24] James Hall: [00:06:24] Yeah, yeah, So way back, 

[00:06:26] Kent Thalman: [00:06:26] not the two, that was the 2005 or whatever the remake was, 

[00:06:30] Anna Thalman: [00:06:30] Now you say you're not into those, but I remember in film school that you always seemed to have some extra fake blood. Ready to go for whatever you're filming.

[00:06:42]James Hall: [00:06:42] Part of that was just always ready for whatever we needed on there. Like, Hey, you know, we're going to need some fake blood at some point. So I'll just stock it just, you know, be a good friend. Someone might need it. 

[00:06:56] Kent Thalman: [00:06:56] that's hilarious 

[00:06:57] Anna Thalman: [00:06:57] Most of us carry a first aid kit, but James has [00:07:00] a blood kit. 

[00:07:01] Kent Thalman: [00:07:01] Yes. you know, what was the last movie Anna that we ever had any blood in our movies? I can't think of one. That's kind of crazy 

[00:07:10] Anna Thalman: [00:07:10] we have a kid who sprains his wrist. 

[00:07:13] Kent Thalman: [00:07:13] Yeah. Back in the day, James, I was just like you and high school and early college, it was like, how do I like tape a firecracker to a, ketchup packet from burger king and like stick it behind someone's shirt and then put like a piece of cardboard behind that so that you don't blow a hole in their skin and that's our safe, way of, you know, but then you never really know when the actor's supposed to pretend to pull the trigger because it's just on a fuse.

[00:07:40] James Hall: [00:07:40] Yeah.

[00:07:43] Kent Thalman: [00:07:43] Cut to it when it works. And, uh, let's just have him kinda like, pretend like he's spraying bullets, you know, and they just put like a whole strip of them on there. I'm speaking about church activities now.

[00:08:01] [00:08:00] James Hall: [00:08:01] Yes. 

[00:08:01] Kent Thalman: [00:08:01] Oh my goodness. So, 

[00:08:03] Anna Thalman: [00:08:03] so you mentioned kind of this first, like admiration of film and the magic of it and not really knowing how it worked, being intrigued as a nine-year-old, but when did you really decide, like I'm going to do this for a living. 

[00:08:15]James Hall: [00:08:17] No I mean I'd always wanted to do it. I was always, cause I always loved storytelling. I'm very long-winded as you both know, I don't think we've ever had a conversation underneath an hour. We just go on and that's great. And I love it. And so I've always been kind of in love with storytelling and that's just, I think just ingrained and I think it started to transfer over to film, honestly, kind of like you were talking aboutKent, it was just like, you get a, you know, a group together or you pull siblings and you're just like, Hey. I got mom's video camera and she doesn't need the last 20 minutes of her wedding. So we're just going to tape over that, it's cool. It's [00:09:00] the boring part. Let's go.

[00:09:02] Kent Thalman: [00:09:02] That's hilarious. Is that a, is that the story?

[00:09:08] James Hall: [00:09:08] maybe. There's no evidence mom. You can't prove it. 

[00:09:19] Kent Thalman: [00:09:19] Oh my gosh. 

[00:09:21] James Hall: [00:09:21] The real story, we don't know how James is. Phil got switched the tape for sure. So, I guess it was a lot of trial and error and it was always something fun. I think, to be honest for me to find out that that was something I wanted to do is I had to try everything else. When I was going to apply to the BYU film program. my family is close friends with the Parkins and Jeff Parkin. So I went up to BYU right when I was applying and I talked to Jeff and he just said, James films. Awesome. It's the best thing ever, but if you [00:10:00] can do anything else, go do it. And my family, you know, they weren't into the arts. And so that wasn't a thing. It wasn't a viable option. So I kind of was nudged into first in the dentistry. And then I started taking the prerequisites, to do kind of like a medical track. And then I didn't like that. So I went business and accounting and finance, and literally just took, that's why I was in school for a dynasty is cause I was just taking all these classes and all these other things. Kind of skirting around what I really wanted to do. And I decided I wanted to do the minor. I always wanted to do the minor. And I found out that the difference between applying for the major and the minor was just the short film, the fun part. So I was like, Hey, let's just apply for the major. We'll do it. We'll try it. And, I received word that I got in and I was heading out on a long trip to Idaho with my dad. And we were in the car five minutes, just barely get on the [00:11:00] freeway. And he turned to me and he's like, James, I think you should go for film. And that's when I said funny story I am, and I got it in, Yeah. And I think ever since then, it was just always about, you know, just giving it my all and trying and just, you know, seeing if it worked and, cause I realized that I wouldn't, I rather have the understanding that like, Hey, I went out, I did this thing and maybe you have to pivot and do something different, go into something else. Or that's a lateral move, you know, the adjacent to filmmaking, kinda like I'm doing now. I mean commercial work, but still great. But, that I didn't want to do one of those other things. One of those other trades and have this regret of like, what if I went for it? What if I tried? So that was a motivation. I don't know if that [00:12:00] answered the question, but there. 

[00:12:02] Kent Thalman: [00:12:03] so you said something about Jeff talking about, I've heard. I've heard him say this by the way. Yeah. If you can do anything else you should. because film is super hard, , like, do you believe that and why 

[00:12:17]James Hall: [00:12:17] is, filmmaking , hard?

[00:12:20] Kent Thalman: [00:12:20] Yeah. And like, even just like what Jeff 

[00:12:21] Anna Thalman: [00:12:21] would you pass along that advice to someone else. 

[00:12:27] James Hall: [00:12:27] Ooh, good questions. I don't know if necessarily, if you can do anything else, because I think, every trade is hard, you know. Roofing. I just been on a roof all day and I'm the guy with the camera and I'm not even carrying the heavy supplies and shingles and membrane and all this other kind of stuff. and that goes from anything. I think anything, any field is hard. And I think if you're. Wanting to do something easy, then that's a, that's a whole other introspective [00:13:00] avenue. You got to go down. But I think, I do. I think film is hard in its own particular way. because I think everyone thinks they can do it and they think they can do it better. And so film is very subjective for a roof you put on right or wrong. It's objective. It is you, you did your job or you didn't do it filmmaking. Especially with commercial work, you do something for a client and he, or she may not have been very specific about their tastes or they say, do whatever you want. And then you find out later that they actually have very strong tastes and you aren't operating in the realm of them. And so you still deliver the product, but it may not be exactly what they wanted. So we've all been there, done that. but I think, It's hard, obviously for the physical, the mental, the emotional, it pulls from all those. But I also think there's a little extra measure where it's so subjective and everyone [00:14:00] thinks they can do it. It just seems easy and glamorous on the outside. And it's just so accessible and it's just there and it just happens. And it's organic when you click on it or sit down and watch it. And it's not.

[00:14:17] Kent Thalman: [00:14:17] Yeah. You know, I always feel like I even felt like growing up and even just going through school and entering the field, really good DPS, I look at what they do. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I could do that. And like the best of the best editors, I'm like, yeah, there's a reason they're the best. And then you look at the best of the best directors and you're like, oh yeah, I could do that. you're like for some reason, directing like no, no one, no one understands exactly what it is. And when I think has a sort of different definition of what a director does even The great directors probably disagree with each other regarding it. What exactly is your job now? I think once you get into the studio system, playing field levels out a little bit in terms of not, not in terms of style or workflow or craft, but it does level out in [00:15:00] terms of, look, we've done movies for Marvel, or we've done movies for paramount, or we've done movies for Netflix. once you've done it for them, like you said, you understand that client almost and so we get what the job is and you start to get a unique perspective of that. But especially in the indie film world, that job is wide open. what does an indie film director do? Especially one that hasn't made movies for the studio. There's nothing that. Doesn't count about indie films, but. Sometimes it's a little more free game, especially when you're like sub million, you know, it's really you could do whatever the heck you want. I mean, even in the big, the big game, there are sometimes still people like Terrence Malick, who have it's like, I don't even know what he's doing on set. Like, what does that even look like? Or like, Duplass brothers or whatever. These guys are all doing stuff radically different. So we all kind of think I could direct movies, but that craft in some ways it's easier because there [00:16:00] isn't such a hard definition. And in some ways it's harder because you can't check boxes with that job it works or it doesn't. And you've got to come up with the concept fresh and then you've got to execute it and it's got to work or it doesn't. So it's very. Very tricky. 

[00:16:14] Anna Thalman: [00:16:14] Well, and I think that that's true for a lot of jobs, not just director, but there are so many layers that people don't see. they see, even if you're in the industry and your onset, they see you show up to set, but they don't see all the preparation that's gone into you being able to show up and make a decision on the spot and all the reasons why that you've made the decisions you have. They just see you like to something. And it's very easy to just be critical of that. And I think on the other hand, a lot of people just see it in the theater. You see it when it's winning an award or when you're getting up on stage and you're right. It does look glamorous and it looks like, wow, I could do that. I could get up on stage and accept an award

[00:16:55] Kent Thalman: [00:16:55] is that the job. [00:17:00] I can get paid lots of money. Why is that hard? 

[00:17:03] Anna Thalman: [00:17:03] But that's like years of someone's life. Right? 

[00:17:07] Kent Thalman: [00:17:07] Seriously. What's taking them so long. I could make a movie in like two weeks. why Does it take them years? so I want to talk a little bit about not just the job, but what about the lifestyle? So I look at people like, for example, doctors, they have to work weekends, you know, or. Firefighters or OB GYN, they have to kind of be on call, you know, just like constantly. and then there's people who just, who work other kinds of jobs where it's very structured, you know, and, and everything. What about, film? What does the lifestyle look like and and have you found it difficult to have a healthy lifestyle working in it? 

[00:17:53]James Hall: [00:17:53] Ooh. I think it's, I, you know, I think there's a couple of different schools of [00:18:00] thought because I think it's a little bit different you know, if you're freelance or you're at, I mean, I've done an LA and things like that. And again, I was, just a very, very lonely lowly be on oncoming on some of the shows and things like that. And they seem pretty structured But assistant work, I, you know, it was around the clock even on weekends and things like that. And a little bit of kind of on-call when I did some of that, even Saturdays, you know, and you're like, Hey, my car is in the shop. I need you to go pick it up and go downtown and like, oh, half your day is gone. but also kind of, doing more freelance and being in Wyoming it's, I, I would say very similar. So I think the boundaries, are the ones that you create and the ones that you stand by and. You know, it can be rather difficult. I mean, just like if it was, you know, when I was a waiter, I, there was sometimes I have to work Sundays, but I think that can also, you know, be the same for film. And usually [00:19:00] it's, you know, a very concentrated, you know, you're working a lot very long, for a few weeks and then there's a break and you kind of rejuvenate and then you go back into it. Or if you have something that you, you know, you have clients or things like that, that you can. I have, it can be more consistent or steady or just, you know, staggered out. But I honestly think it's just the boundaries that you create. And going back to what you were saying before is I think the process should serve the result. So like, what does a director do and years, you know, going in and doing and making the decisions. Ultimately that's, what's so great about independent film is it doesn't have to be done this one way. You can do it so many different ways and be inventive with the process and hope that it serves to make a better product. you don't have to have an army of, 200 people, 180 of which are standing by. And so I [00:20:00] think that there's a lot of different things. And I, I think for me, I've been trying really hard to just have those boundaries that like, I'm not working Sunday. I did for a year. But now that's not what I'm going to do and let people know that that's my boundary. And, it's worked out pretty well. So I guess this kind of all goes under the umbrella. Yeah. It's hard and yeah. Is demanding and there's ebbs and flows, but I still think you can have boundaries. 

[00:20:26] Kent Thalman: [00:20:26] Yeah. I, I'm curious to know, you mentioned something about like independent film and being creative with the process. So, James, I know you're working on a film right now. could you really quickly just talk to us a little bit about the project that you're currently developing and what some of your concerns? I actually don't know. I don't know what your considerations are in terms of, do you have any, are you considering any creative quote, unquote creative approaches to the workflow or the process?

[00:20:57] James Hall: [00:20:57] Yeah. Okay. So [00:21:00] here we go. so, I, oh, I, has it been a year? I think it's been almost, uh, almost a year. Well, maybe a little bit less, because I think I finished writing in August of last year because of the program and doing that 12 week and all that stuff. That's actually what helped motivate me to write my feature. And then it's just been rewrites and rewrites and new rights, and I'm sending it out to friends getting your feedback. And, from there we've kind of, I, Dane, a good friend of mine was working at, or sorry, he's a student at Columbia and he wanted to use it as a senior thesis. And that's what really kind of got a lot of traction there. Because now we've pitched to a small studio waiting to hear back from them, as well as just kind of a couple of other contacts through the Columbia, thesis pitch. And we're still in kind of [00:22:00] development, still doing a lot of writing and things like that. And it's essentially about a girl in Wyoming that joins an all boy wrestling team. We've interviewed, about a dozen girls, some current, some, from a decade ago, that wrestled and it's kind of a hodgepodge. when, what, what am I trying to find? One of the say culmination and that's not work that's all right. Collection. We'll go with that collection of, their stories into one fictional character. So the star that the lead protagonist, her name is Jaden Rawlings. And she's a senior and the things that happen. I mean, obviously she's not real, but the events and things that did happen happened to these other girls. And, what was the, what was the other question? 

[00:22:50] Kent Thalman: [00:22:50] What was your yeah? It was great. It was the perfect pitch, by the way. 

[00:22:53] James Hall: [00:22:53] I tried, I tried. I was trying to be brief, but it doesn't happen to me.

[00:22:57] Kent Thalman: [00:22:57] It's okay. I've got a movie that I'm [00:23:00] editing right now and I'm like, it's about. Um, 

[00:23:05] James Hall: [00:23:05] yeah, I can only imagine 

[00:23:07]Kent Thalman: [00:23:07] the, uh, there's some movies that just pitch so easy and then there's some where it's like, you did great. the question was, are there any, workflow or process considerations?

[00:23:19] James Hall: [00:23:19] Yeah. So there's always the expectation when you're on a film shoot is that it's going to be long hours and you're gonna work six days a week. I mean, it's gonna be 12 hours plus, and talking to Dane was really interesting because he built into our budget to you know, to give the crew more rest in that they'll do better work. And that they'll actually, and what you can accomplish in eight hours with sleep and things like that. You could've done on a 12 hour day anyway. And so what Dan and I have discussed, and again, this is still pending financing, but, to [00:24:00] do five days in eight hour days and to take and to scatter our breaks. So to take either like a Wednesday or Thursday off and also to say, is the plan. And I think that's the, that's the ideal, you know, that's what we're, we're hoping to do, but you know, it's, ultimately, you want people to be able to have it be an enjoyable process and you want, I mean, the more that they enjoy it and have fun, the better their artistic expression and contribution to that project is so, yeah, that might mean that we have a little bit less coverage or that might mean that some things might have to change. And I think, for me as a director, the script isn't, you know, carved and engraved in gold, I know the limitations of my writing and, if, someone can bring something better, let's go with it. You know, it's, it's kind of a guideline framework. Like, Hey, this is where the path needs to lead. And so I feel like it's very malleable and I, think what best, [00:25:00] serves, the result of like, Hey, we need to get from point a to point B. let's all be well rested. Let's all have a, good time. Let's enjoy our time here and I'll be understanding and flexible and still kind of know the direction we need to go, but let's figure this out together and hopefully we can do so and not feel like we're dying. 

[00:25:19]Kent Thalman: [00:25:19] So this next question is one that I've struggled with for years. I love this idea, James, and I've actually Anna and I had this goal on our feature and we had a few days where we had success, but 

[00:25:32] James Hall: [00:25:32] like, was it, did you notice a difference? 

[00:25:36] Kent Thalman: [00:25:36] Well, no, because we only had, we only had a few of those days where we were like, we did it! For the most part, it was like, we shot in eight hours now let's spend the next eight hours like prepping, you know? Cause we, really have a lot more work to do. Our pre-production was way too short. So you guys, I think on this film or doing the kind of prep we were doing on the other movie we were working on, which was. Just, you know, like a solid year of just [00:26:00] really, really preparing it. Whereas we were writing scenes the night before we shot them. Not because we were unprepared, but because it was a very loosey goosey kind of experimental approach. But the reason I have had this question for years is I've often thought about how do I get filmed down to eight hour days? Not because I want it to be easier, but because I want the burden on the production and not on the families or on the individuals and health and relationships and things like that. And like you said, I believe that that will translate into better filmmaking and better artists showing up with their brains completely awake. Cause we know that sleep deprivation literally shuts parts of your brain off, which we don't want. I want everyone's whole brain there. but. I'll ask you the hardest question. I know. And I'll just, throw it on you, so maybe you'll help me. how do you justify that to your investors? Because as an investor, let's say I wanted to give you, you know, a few six figure donations. And I was like, wait, [00:27:00] you want to shoot eight hour days, but your actors are getting paid day rates, right? They're not any cheaper for an eight hour day versus a 12 hour day. And your cameras aren't any cheaper because they're only being used for eight hours as opposed to 12 hours, like everything is on day. Right. And I think that's why Hollywood has kind of gone to this, like, well, we'll just do 20 hours. And then the unions are like work 12, you know? Like, and then they're like, okay, 12 plus over time. So how do you justify to an investor an eight hour Workday? If you're paying everyone day rates or renting everything day, rate? 

[00:27:37]James Hall: [00:27:37] Really good question. And I haven't had to do that yet. So when I do, but I think, if I had, if I had magically had an investor here today, I would probably say is a very similar to kind of what we already said is that it will create a better result. How many shooting days you know, was, was [00:28:00] jaws, you know, how many days over did they shoot? And no one talks about it. And how many days over was Titanic? No one talks about it. I mean, how many days? And those were, those are a little bit different kind of scenario, but you ask anyone about any movie and I mean, The quantity of time, I don't think necessarily dictates how great this project is or you, no one really cares, you know, about how fast a movie was made, unless it's good. So the very first tier, the very first thing you have to get to is making this a great movie, making this good. And to do that the best way to ensure that is that your crew, your staff, your cast are happy and taken care of and want to be there. and if you can check that box, then Hey, you're that much closer and that much more prepared to make a better move. No, it doesn't matter if it's who cares about how fast it was made. 

[00:29:00] [00:29:00] Anna Thalman: [00:29:00] Yeah. I feel like it's a quality versus quantity thing. It's like we could get more shots if everyone pushed harder. At the end of the day, we have more shots and more shots that we can't use, so that actually could increase the costs. it's wasting, wasting energy, wasting time and wearing us out because we're all, exhausted. it's a marathon making a feature film is just, you have to have like on a marathon when we ran our first marathon, we realized you have to eat before the end of the run or your body will completely run out of energy. So unlike a shorter run, you can't just like sprint and make it to the end. You will pass out or bonk or whatever, if you don't ingest some quick calories. 

[00:29:51] Kent Thalman: [00:29:51] Yeah. Like you don't see many people running five Ks eating, like. Burgers. Right? Like, you'll see people eating all kinds of things on mile [00:30:00] 20. Like we were eating bacon, literally we ate bacon on our marathon. it was salty. Yeah. 

[00:30:07] Anna Thalman: [00:30:07] And so same thing with the feature film, I feel like you could on a short film, like just push and work tons of hours and survive. 

[00:30:13] Kent Thalman: [00:30:13] Just like shoot like 36 hours straight. And don't sleep 

[00:30:15] Anna Thalman: [00:30:15] like once you're doing that for a month, it's not, it's not sustainable. 

[00:30:20] James Hall: [00:30:20] Yeah. Well, and you to kind of, well, you've experienced this, you know, this better, but in part I want, you know what you said about like, Hey, we planned for those eight hour days and yeah. We still ended up doing 16, but think if you had planned for 12 hours, you know, then you're just cooked. So I still think, even though. it didn't work quite necessarily how you thought, I still think it was a benefit because it gave you a little bit of the wiggle room to do some more prep for the next day you know, or whatever that may be. So that's kind of a nice thing. It has a little buffer. Everyone's already used to 12. If you go over, [00:31:00] no one you would prefer not to, you try not to, but there's a little bit of a safety net. If you're over 12, people are just like, okay, when am I going home? I mean, I have so much to do and I haven't done laundry and you know, their, their lives, you know, they get home and they still have stuff to do. And so I think it's, a nice little buffer as well. It has a safety net in case you do need to go home. 

[00:31:25] Anna Thalman: [00:31:25] Yeah. I think that's something I wish I had done differently is not made the expectation of like, we're just going to work eight hours and then be done. I wish we just treated it like. A normal 12 hour day, and then we end early and just say, we're done early. You can go home because then what happened is we were going over and everyone's like, okay, you had this great vision and it didn't turn out. You know? And so then 

[00:31:48] Kent Thalman: [00:31:48] we also just learned what the real price of an eight hour day is, and that price is preparation, like intense preparation. So now we know, and so I'm fully confident that we, and our next [00:32:00] film, we will actually be clocking eight to eight hour days. 

[00:32:03] Anna Thalman: [00:32:03] we did achieve it. It just, you know, we had to learn, 

[00:32:05] Kent Thalman: [00:32:05] yeah, this movie was in large part for us just counting the costs of what it actually takes to make a film and make a film the way we want to make it. But, so speaking of buffering, let's talk about, let's talk about coaching. So james, did you

[00:32:21]Anna Thalman: [00:32:21] let's talk about the program because you brought that up, that you, that helped you write this film. So that's. Good transition. 

[00:32:28] Kent Thalman: [00:32:28] Yeah. I was making a pun to make the transition, sorry, 

[00:32:32] Anna Thalman: [00:32:32] but I don't know if people get it cause they don't know 

[00:32:34] Kent Thalman: [00:32:34] buffering and coaching. If you don't get the jokes sign up for the film family academy and then you'll get the joke. 

[00:32:41] Anna Thalman: [00:32:41] Fair enough. 

[00:32:42] James Hall: [00:32:42] You got to keep watching. 

[00:32:44] Kent Thalman: [00:32:44] So James, you mentioned 12 weeks. what are you talking about? What 12 weeks and what did you do and what did that do for you? 

[00:32:53] James Hall: [00:32:53] Yeah. So I don't, know if I was part of the beta team 

[00:32:58] Kent Thalman: [00:32:58] you're, the alpha dog james. 

[00:33:01] [00:33:00] James Hall: [00:33:01] I was the alpha, the beta first guy. So, uh, you guys reached out to me about the program and I did the, but we, they called it like a free trial for six weeks. Right. And I love it so much that I did another six weeks after that. And it was really interesting because, you know, I enjoyed it and I'm like, okay, I think I get the hang of this. and there was part of me it's like, Hey, do you know the six weeks? I think I got it. But there was just something that was telling me Hey, Just do it a little bit longer. See where this goes, because it was enough to be taught this philosophy to be taught the brain exercises, but not to practice and like live it. And so what happened in the next six weeks was much what I would say, exponential growth. that's when I just decided I could write a [00:34:00] screenplay and write my first feature and get it and do it, you know, again, I knew the model in the first six weeks, but it was the second six weeks. That's when I was like, okay, now I actually can understand this and I'm doing it and committed and made it happen. So, 

[00:34:17]Kent Thalman: [00:34:17] so right now you're a healthy, happy Intrepid filmmaker with a film getting pitched to, you know, Senior faculty at Columbia and studios looking at it. And you're, you're getting this thing going. All right. So paint the picture for me. You said it's what helped me realize that I could write a screenplay? what was keeping you from writing a screenplay before? Like, talk to me about where were you at when you started 

[00:34:48] Anna Thalman: [00:34:48] before all of it?

[00:34:49] James Hall: [00:34:49] Before man, this is, this is a fun little brain exercise because once yeah. And again, I would say once I did it, I'm still happy to do it. That's the thing is the [00:35:00] screenplay is I anyway, that's a whole other story. The drought, the rewriting has been almost just as hard as the first draft, but once you've done it, then it's just encouraging to do more and it's, you know, you just kind of get, it's just very, it just becomes more kinetic to do it. but I had a dozen. I think yeah, it might have been a dozen of either outlines or the first 40 pages of scripts. I'm not kidding. All different ones. All abandoned, never did. I never went anything with it cause I, I loved filmmaking or I loved writing, but I just couldn't get over the hill because that vibrancy that you, um, we talked about, like the riding, the wave of motivation, it would die down. It would just kind of, you know, it'd be whatever reason it'd be low tide in my life. And I just be like, I don't feel like riding this. And then all of a sudden that idea gets [00:36:00] washed away and you kind of forget, why was a burning desire before. And so you move on to the next burning idea. And that seems to be high tide and yeah, just splashing around. This is the best thing ever. I'm totally finishing this one and then it goes away. So after doing that for so long, I think one of the big ideas of the program that lit a spark within me is that you can generate that motivation. You don't need to wait for high tide. You can basically make the waves yourself and that's it worked.

[00:36:42] Kent Thalman: [00:36:42] Could you, so since that's like the main thing that you're bringing up right now, could you help me understand how to create motivation as opposed to waiting for high tide?

[00:36:57] James Hall: [00:36:57] Because I, it only comes at midnight [00:37:00] after a lot of mountain dew, it looks like but, I think it was, changing my mindset from like, oh, this is hard, or, oh, I need some external, force or stimuli that I, that I couldn't, I think there was a bit of, there was a lack of confidence that I could do it. And so relying on, you know, just that kind of, Surge of energy or motivation, but that, again, it, it fades it, you, you don't really operate on that level all the time. And that's just not how people are. We have our highs and lows. And so, what it was, it was just learning to a, have the confidence that like changing my , thought, my thinking from like all this is so hard and it's just going to be so much time. It just broke it down. It's like do an hour a day, do an hour a day. [00:38:00] And if you don't have anything, you walk away and you try again the next day, but at least you're working towards the goal. You can do anything. You know that it's not hard an hour a day. I think that's what our actual, we put into the model is that this is just going to take an hour a day. And what happened is I never sat at the computer now. Not once. it always took me like 30 minutes and you're on that cusp of giving up and just saying, oh, I got nothing. I've been staring at a blank page. There's nothing, there's nothing in here. And then all of a sudden he hit a keystroke and something sparks and you're looking at it and you're like, oh my goodness, it's been three hours. I have to go to bed, but I don't want to. You know? And so, I think that's what kind of turned the corner is realizing that you know, that the situation is neutral, that you can make of it, what you want thinking that something is hard. And difficult and that it's just, you know, this [00:39:00] monumental hurdle makes it, that makes itself, it makes it a mountain. When you think it's a mountain. And rather than just like, Hey, there's a hurdle, you know, in a race. And yeah, we'll take some energy, but it's not going to be that bad. And it became fun. 

[00:39:17] Kent Thalman: [00:39:17] Yeah. That's awesome. I really liked that you're describing some thoughts, honestly, that sound really unique, but they are what works for you to get that result. you're talking about the model, which we're familiar with, but for anyone who's not familiar with it, you talked about how you kind of learned it. the model is, you know, the basic premise. I mean, you can explain it in 30 seconds, right? It's that circumstances trigger our thoughts. Our thoughts create our. Feelings, our feelings are what drive our actions and that our actions are what create our results and that when we start to not allow our circumstances to simply trigger our thoughts, but we follow those thoughts into the subconscious and then choose what thoughts we're going to think. That's [00:40:00] how we start to change what our feelings and our actions, et cetera, become. And we can start to determine our results, like what you were just doing. But my question is, you mentioned this like, oh, once I learned it and then there was the separate phase where you started to master it, you actually started to apply it to your life. And I don't know if any of us have truly mastered the model. Honestly, I think it takes a long time, but I think it's easy when we listen to the podcast or even when we start lessons or whatever, it'd be like, oh yeah. it sounds intuitive. I mean, at first for, I think Anna and I, we talked about when we first were starting to learn about the model. Which is Brooke Castillo pioneered it. We were like, wow, that's really profound, but I get it. You know, it makes sense. Right. Like, but it's really kind of sounds life-changing, but you don't really realize how life changing until you really work at it. And conscious effort is absolutely required. So I guess I just, [00:41:00] what, what was the difference there between like learning it and then starting to apply it? and what do you think would have happened if you'd learned it? those first six weeks and then maybe not continued on to the, the application process. 

[00:41:14]James Hall: [00:41:14] Well, Anna's a really good coach and she explains things very well. And I think she may have told me this model, at least once in every single one of our sessions for those first six weeks, because it's a different mindset. I think, at least for me, I liked having an excuse. I think our first, you know, first thing was like, My boss is going to make sure you're not around my boss is so hard and it's just such a difficult job. And he's so mean. And I liked having that as a crutch, having that as an excused, it helped cushion, you know, it helped cauterize, this, [00:42:00] wound of that, Hey, I want to write a script. I want to do other things, but I feel exhausted from my work. I feel just completely drained and sapped. So of doing the things I have to do or need to do. That I can't do what I want. So I was able to just kind of write this excuse that all my work is just too tough and I just don't have the time. And even if I did, it's just so I don't have the, you know, emotional capacity because my job is just so totaling and taxing and it's hard to change your mindset to say I can, that I actually have control that the situation is neutral, that there could be a hundred different people in this scenario with my same boss. And there'll be tons of say, he's the best guy ever. I love him. And there'll be people that think he's a lot worse than me. And I get to choose how I see that. Now, obviously there are bosses that are bad and [00:43:00] mean, but I realized taking a look and assessing my situation circumstance. I realized that I was very fortunate and that there were things that, yeah, it was very, you know, it took a lot of time he was demanding of my time, but he was also compensating me for it. So I was like, you know what, this isn't really that bad. And it kind of A made me work harder and get things and do things more productive, but also just value my free time more rather than just trying to like, spend a decompressing in front of the TV. And just trying to forget that I have to do something tomorrow. It was like, no, I, I can do this. my job doesn't suck. My boss is not a mastermind arch villain. So therefore my life's pretty good, so I can go and I can do this other thing. I can actually, work and write and make movies. Cause that was the other thing is I, all these projects I had never finished. I [00:44:00] made more projects after the 12 week program. Then in those three months that followed and I had in the last year and a half in LA. You know, and just start to complete stuff and it just felt good and, creativity kind of just leads to more creativity it was literally just making sets of weights and who's to say that even it's actually good, but I was having fun.

[00:44:25] Kent Thalman: [00:44:25] I think, I think, I think you're on to something. I liked a lot, what you said about, like a hundred people in my exact shared circumstance are going to handle all these circumstances differently. And that's something that Anna and I have talked about where like, could someone step into these circumstances and choose to take a nobler perspective? Or could they step into these exact circumstances and accomplish everything? I think I can't do. And you know that there are people that could do that. Like, it's almost like obvious when you think of it that way. someone could step into my life with my family, with my schedule. And they could [00:45:00] just figure out how to squeeze an hour out of that schedule and how to choose to do something different with that time that you're wasting, you know, like we all know we have some it doesn't make us bad people. It's just that when you think of it that way. Yeah. It's like the circumstance is not the determining factor that controls the result. and so I guess you successfully walked through the model enough times in enough ways that you started to generate results that were real in a pretty short amount of time. I mean, you literally said like three months after the 12 weeks you generated visibly more productivity. How long was it until you had a first draft? I mean, you'd spent years after film school. How long was it before after those 12 weeks that you had a first draft of a script. 

[00:45:42]James Hall: [00:45:42] I think I started, I think we, we did the 12 week program, I think, was it end of March? Not this last year, but the year before I think it was end of March and that took us 12 weeks. So I started at the beginning of summer writing, which was probably June. And I think I had [00:46:00] my first draft August or September, I believe I could go back and look at it. Yeah. But yeah, I think that was, I think that was pretty, that was pretty close.

[00:46:13] Anna Thalman: [00:46:13] Well, and what's interesting is so when I started out doing the coaching, I was just selling six weeks of private coaching as a package. And I started to realize that six weeks was enough for people to start to experience an internal change. they started to feel different. They started to. Like their life didn't look that different, but they started to feel different in their same circumstances. And when I would get people who would sign up again and do another six weeks and do at least 12 weeks of private coaching, that the results started to become more exterior, you know, not just on the inside, it was like, oh, now it's visible to other people. And that was sort of my experience as well. Like at first it's just this internal thing. And then you start to see the model all the way through like that [00:47:00] those beliefs, if you stick with them will change your results. And soon your whole life is starting to look different and other people will look at you and say, whoa, what, you know what happened? Like something is different here. And so anyway, that's why now the program offers 12 weeks. so it's interesting to hear your experience with the, the first six and then the second six, because I think that's pretty typical that it starts internally and then spreads to the external. 

[00:47:29]James Hall: [00:47:29] Absolutely. And it's also like, we kind of focused on that first six weeks on that problem with my boss. Right. That was basically it. And then the next six weeks, it started to open up and it's like, okay, I want to look more into, the filmmaking and the creative side. I also wanted to talk, you know, a little bit about my weight and dating and you started to apply it to not just one of the concerns or issues or, you know, whatever circumstances you. Cause I think [00:48:00] that's for me the first six weeks was like, okay, it's addition, it's addition and subtraction. That's all we're doing. And then you start to get the order of operations in that second six weeks. And you're like, oh my goodness. it can be applied to literally anything. And I started to do that. 

[00:48:17] Anna Thalman: [00:48:17] So could you tell us a little bit about that? How did it affect other areas of your life? 

[00:48:21] James Hall: [00:48:22] I mean, uh, I think the weight one is, is pretty obvious that it was just like, Hey, this is a situation that I have control over and you start to kind of take an inventory and say, okay, what, do I want the end result to be? That feeds my situation that, brings evidence back to support, the thought cause that's the thing that's always interesting is like, Kent, you said earlier is that it's kind of a, self-fulfilling prophecy in a lot of ways. So if you change your thought and you have that result and that kind of goes back in this situation, you start to think about things differently. And so, [00:49:00] in, in the life of dating it was like, oh, I'm literally in Casper, Wyoming ready? Any people that are listening to this from Casper, Wyoming. I love it here, but they're just, aren't that many people.. And I'm like, there's no one here today. I don't meet anyone. I hang out on the roof all day working and shooting and I just don't meet anyone. So instead of just saying, oh, My initial thoughts were, oh, there's no one. I can't find anyone. There's no one here or it's too hard or, you know, all the other different kinds of excuses. Cause that's what they are. You started to think that like, Hey, it's again, not hard to go on a date. It's fun to go on a date. I want to have fun meeting people. And that's literally how it started. And you go and you start to date different people. And when we were traveling around, I even went out on dates there. It was so funny. There was one girl that I met at church and I was there a week. And she's just like, where do you see this [00:50:00] going? And I was like, well, I just thought we'd go to the movies.

[00:50:07] Kent Thalman: [00:50:07] Where do you see this going? The same place. Everything in my life is going. The movies. 

[00:50:12] James Hall: [00:50:12] I'm in Colorado Springs until Tuesday. And so that's where I see it going. getting in a car and driving away. but, you know just, you know, it, opened me up to opportunities I guess, is the best way to put it is rather than dreading it, rather than thinking again, that it's just, I, I can't do this. It just opened me up that this is fun. This is a good time. And. Lo and behold, now I'm dating someone from Casper, Wyoming. So it happened and I just opened it up to it and there's no way I would have been able to, date or had I not had that kind of change in my attitude and mindset. So I [00:51:00] think that's the big thing is first, six weeks learning it kind of trying to think the different way and say, okay, no more excuses. I have control of how I feel about the situation. The circumstance is neutral to start to applying it, living it. And it takes a little minute to see those results. But when you see him, it's like a it's what you thought were notquite. Whoa. 

[00:51:27] Kent Thalman: [00:51:27] Yeah. have to add my own, feelings to that in terms of, Anna and I I've mentioned this many times Anna coaches me still and even like, It was yesterday. Yeah. Wow. Yesterday I got coached on something really personal and was just opening up and like kind of, you know, I'm really familiar with the model. So you get really self-conscious and you start to like, qualify everything you say, and you have to kind of get over that. But I kind of just laid it all out and then she just, the only thing she said during the whole coaching session, I feel because I was blabbering [00:52:00] through the whole like thought download portion of it. And then I kind of filled in the model myself or whatever, then she'd just be like, so what are you thinking in that circumstance? what is your thought there? And it sounds so basic. It sounds so basic with anyone who's listened to the podcast several times and you're getting familiar with the model you go, oh yeah, I get it. The thoughts, you know, creative feelings. Like we get it, and then you'll be in these, these sessions and it'll be like, The coach will direct you to figure out what that thought is, and then drive it all the way to the result. And then you'll go, okay, well, I know this is the result because I'm living it. And I know that this is the thought, which I'd, hadn't really taken the time to identify before. And then it was like, boom. And the one thing we always say is the thought always mirrors the result. They're almost always the same thing. Like that thought is literally creating your results. And they almost are like the thought, like, I don't have enough time. Almost always creates the result that you don't have enough time. [00:53:00] because you're actually acting in a way that's like, you're filling your time with these other things. And so you literally are forcing time out of your day or whatever. That's just one random example, but. It's always this play that so surprising to me. And once I realized I did it again, and I was like, what the thought literally created the result and it was the exact mirror. And then, and we did the intentional model and I almost got emotional. It was such a breakthrough. I was like, it always seems simple and basic, but I think that's how, you know, it's true. You're like, well, yeah, that's obviously true. But like my subconscious brain didn't realize it was true. Maybe it, can recognize that, but I had to kind of expose my subconscious brain and then just drop truth right on top of it. And it was like, take that. It's like, wow, there it is. And like, yeah. So I, sometimes I worry, I guess my worry is that sometimes when you, you talk about these realizations that you were having, and I sometimes talk about realizations that I have in coaching, it sounds so obvious unless you're the one thinking the thoughts. And then when you experience a coaching [00:54:00] session and you realize, I was thinking that, I mean, once you like bring it out into the open. You're like, well, that's obviously not a great thought, but it's your subconscious brain thinking. It's not your conscious brain thinking. And we don't walk around all day going, like, I'm the worst. I can't do anything or whatever, but then like you get into a specific circumstance and you realize, oh, I actually think that I can't do this. I actually think that that I'm not even capable of learning this thing or I'm not capable of doing this thing. And so, I don't know. I just think it's, it is, I just I've had the same experiences that you're expressing.

[00:54:36] Anna Thalman: [00:54:36] There's nothing like actually doing it to experience it for yourself because you're right. Like from the outside, you can see everything. It's easy to watch someone else get coached to watch someone else have that experience. But when it's you, you just realize, oh, I have these blind spots. I had no idea that they were there and then it's so. Mind blowing to, overcome those. But I guess [00:55:00] my last question for you, cause I know you've got to go, would be thinking about that. I guess I'm thinking about someone who's just listened to the podcast and has not experienced coaching yet. And so to them it still feels very basic or maybe a little weird. What was your first impression when I reached out to you about doing this program? did you have doubts, did it seem strange to you? What would you say to someone who's in that situation now? 

[00:55:26]James Hall: [00:55:26] I definitely thought it was very basic and weird. Totally. I was like the very first one that was like, this just can't be it. I just changed my thought, like as if where's the fairy desk and Tinkerbell, who's no Neverland, that kind of thing. And it was I think it's, exactly like you were saying, Kent, is that, it? I think it's so easy, especially when looking at someone else's problems, you can just, you know, it's easy to give advice for opinions. And even I'm sure [00:56:00] if someone that's listening and saying, well, like, duh, you know, James, obviously, but like you said, it's hard to do it in your own life. Like you were saying, Anna. And I think what it really comes down to is we make so many different decisions and at least for me, I make them very reactionary, you know? Because this thing happened, therefore, I got to do this and it's either, just on instinct or gut or emotion. And you never think as to why I did that thing. It's I think the model gives a lot of tools and is a very unique way of thinking, but mainly it teaches you to be more analytical, more studious of what your motivations are, of what you're afraid of, of why you do certain things. It just takes a minute to say, okay, like why, why, why, why, why did I, you know, I've been wanting to run for days wanting to [00:57:00] exercise. I got a gym membership and here I am on the couch, I've gone through half a bag of potatoes and it's done, the goose is cooked. I'm going to bed. And you're just like, why did I do that? I have all these other things. I had a plan. I was trying to trick myself and I just didn't do it. And so taking an inventory of yourself and saying, you know, what. it makes me do the things that I do because we make decisions so rapidly, so quickly and so many each day that we just don't really fully understand why we do what we do. And it's the model is a way of not just understanding, what's around you and how things you know are around you, but mainly yourself and determining [00:58:00] that, I don't have to be what other people think I should be or who other people want me to be. I have the capacity and the ability to be who I want to be, and I can start to build that person consciously every single day. And I think that's really what the model did. And so I think for anyone that's listening, that that should, again, sounds crazy, you know, you're, you might be on the different spectrums of like, this is weird and like too far out there sounds like pixie dust, or it might be like, it's just thoughts, you know, how hard it is. The truth of the matter is, is that, it works and it, works in unexpected, surprising ways because I think there's all for everyone. There is, parts of ourselves, like you said, blind spots, [00:59:00] things we don't understand or things that we're not, really paying attention to, or we don't really know why. let me go to all use, help facing our fears anyway. So I think in that whole little. Pretzel of an answer there might be something to go off. But, I think it just, it helped me understand me and I think anyone, everyone could benefit from that. 

[00:59:24] Kent Thalman: [00:59:24] Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks so much, James. We really appreciate you coming on and we love talking to you in any circumstance, including podcast episodes. So good luck on your film. 

[00:59:37] Anna Thalman: [00:59:37] Is there a way that if anyone wants to find out more about it or connect with you, how would someone do that?

[00:59:45] James Hall: [00:59:45] They can call me directly I was the first guy to get my phone number out, watch out, 

[00:59:56] Kent Thalman: [00:59:56] give them, give me your producers. What's your producers email.

[01:00:02] [01:00:00] James Hall: [01:00:02] We actually built. Um, we can do. Oh, day's a little busy, but you can just email it's jnhall@hotmail.com. Yes. I'm still rocking the Hotmail and it's great. And I'm loving every second. That's the situation. I don't want to change. I'm happy with it.

[01:00:24] Kent Thalman: [01:00:24] hey it's okay, Terrence Malick is still rocking the typewriter, 

[01:00:27] James Hall: [01:00:27] so, yeah. And a typewriter and PTA, I still think uses word. So it's like, you know, why not? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. yeah. Thank you so much. This has been awesome. I, I love doing this. It's great to talk to you too. And I always wish that there was just more time. 

[01:00:49] Anna Thalman: [01:00:49] Well, we'll do it again after you've made your movie.

[01:00:51] Kent Thalman: [01:00:51] There is more time. 

[01:00:54] Anna Thalman: [01:00:54] I'll have you back on, but. But thank you so much for joining us. And I would encourage everyone to [01:01:00] check out James his work and 

[01:01:03] Kent Thalman: [01:01:03] she got James . 

[01:01:06] Anna Thalman: [01:01:06] He is dating somebody. Yeah. But, um, he is an up and coming writer director. You'll want to, you'll want to keep your eye on. So thanks for joining us, James. We'll see you later. 

[01:01:20] James Hall: [01:01:20] Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. 

[01:01:24] Kent Thalman: [01:01:24] You too.

[01:01:26]Anna Thalman: [01:01:26] Bye.

[01:01:27] James Hall: [01:01:27] Bye

[01:01:28]Kent Thalman: [01:01:28] If you want a successful career making feature films and a happy family at the same time, visit invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily to apply for our next enrollment window in the film and family academy, which closes July 1st, 2021. We only accept a select group of qualifying filmmakers each quarter.

[01:01:50] Anna Thalman: [01:01:50] If you qualify, you will receive private mentorship. In addition to lifetime access to our library of courses, our alumni are already realizing major [01:02:00] career milestones and seeing dramatic transformations in their personal relationships. So if you don't want those results, don't apply. 

[01:02:07] Kent Thalman: [01:02:07] If you do visit invisiblemansion.com/filmandfamily and click apply before July 1st of this year, 

[01:02:14]Anna Thalman: [01:02:14] we'll see you next time.

[01:02:15] Kent Thalman: [01:02:15] Bye

[01:02:16]Anna Thalman: [01:02:16] bye.