Kent Thalman 0:28

All right. Well, today we want to talk about and begin with a favorite quote of mine that has become really, really important to me. And it's a quote by a man named M Russell Ballard. And he said, what matters most lasts longest. And that's something that, um, Generate varied reactions in some of our listeners. And I think it's just an interesting one to talk about, but I really do believe that that's true. And as we sort of go about making a case for it, we want to explain it in context of why in life. That's true. And also why in filmmaking. That's true.

Anna Thalman 1:06

This is something that is notable enough that we actually have it framed. Kent made the quote. Put it in a nice frame to put on our

Kent Thalman 1:15

wall. So it's

Anna Thalman 1:17

good. It's definitely one we've thought about a lot. But we're talking about stories that matter and how you can. No, what things matter? So this idea that the things that matter most are the things that last, the longest is what we go by for how we judge. And we're going to make a case for that and what kinds of stories are going to matter the most and last, the longest.

Kent Thalman 1:41

So obviously not everyone believes that families last longer than film, for example. What's interesting is this is I'll just give this some context is that I often have said that if we don't have anything more important than filling. In our lives or to talk about, then it's really unlikely that, or at least in our hearts, right then it's unlikely that we're going to make films that are very important at all films whose highest goal is to talk about the joy and wonders of film itself. I kind of limited by the, the medium and the medium is a means to an end, which is something we've talked about before. So there are things that are more important than mediums. The ends are more important. And, and so that's why we talk about film and family. That's why we talk a lot about other things in our lives personally, that are more important than, our job, or the craft that we love so much. And yet, If we all agree, I think most of us would agree that our families, our mothers or fathers, our siblings, or our dearest friends and relatives, our spouses, our children, family. In general, those relationships matter much more to us, I think, than our jobs, even though we might really feel passionately about filmmaking.

Anna Thalman 2:52

Yeah. I was going to say that too, depending on how you look at it, Your children may not live outlive, a film that you make if you're looking at time on the earth, but they certainly are more important. People are more important than films, and there is this legacy of. Having children and they have children and it continues and gets bigger as time goes by. Because if you see a family tree, you know, the branches break off and break off, and then suddenly you have this huge tree from one trunk, same thing with a family it's going to grow. It's nice to leave something behind. I think a lot of us want to leave this earth. And have something behind that lasts that we have left a legacy, whether it's through the art that we do, or the things that we've said, our example, or the children that we have, those are all things that can be very meaningful that we can leave

Kent Thalman 3:47

behind. I'll refer you to the. Profound lyrics of Montezuma by fleet foxes, which are far more important than the beautiful instrumentation and compositional means through which it is communicated. But it's all just a wonderful marriage there. But so I want to piggyback off of that and just talk about. Another way that we feel that families actually last longer than film itself. And, and that is essentially, some of our own spiritual beliefs, our religious beliefs as members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints. We believe that, Families when someone gets married, it's not just for time or until death. Do you part it's a ceiling is what the word is. The in our church that, you are sealed to that person for even after this life. And that includes to the children that you have. In that marriage. And so, when these families are sealed together and the children are sealed to the parents and then ultimately those children will be sealed to their own spouses and right on and on the whole tree grows. Those relationships for many reasons, which we won't get into in this podcast become vitally important to our eternal destinies. Once again, that is to sort of take it back to that quote, what matters most lasts longest. We believe that on an extremely literal, level that Things like life itself, our lives, our spirits live forever. Our families last forever in a very literal.

Anna Thalman 5:19

Yeah. And I think a lot of people believe this to some degree that when, even when the earth and all the material, things fade away, or we, we pass away to the next life that there is a next life and that those relationships continue on the other side. Even if you Just look at this life. I think you can still see what an effect family has as it spreads and grows. My great aunt June just passed away. She

Kent Thalman 5:46

was

Anna Thalman 5:46

91 91 years old. Bless her heart. She is so sweet and she passed away this last week. And so we've been watching the funeral and it's amazing to see whenever I go to funerals, I actually leave feeling really inspired. Because first of all, there's the legacy that someone left behind in their life that is celebrated at their funeral. But then also seeing all the people that love that person gathered together and especially their family is such an incredible thing to witness. With my own grandma, she had 11 kids and. I was the 35th grandchild. When she passed away, she had over a hundred.

Kent Thalman 6:30

Living living

Anna Thalman 6:31

descendants descendants of her. And she actually held our son Marshall, the day that she passed away, it was like her last, you know, newest grandchild she held it was great grandchild. Great, great, great. No, yeah. Great.

Kent Thalman 6:46

Yeah, it gets complicated anyway. So you see,

Anna Thalman 6:49

you see that group of 130 people just in her lifetime. And I mean, we're all multiplying and, and growing even more it's just. An incredible feat that she and her husband created that family. So anyway, I think funerals are a great Testament to this, but both are very important family and film live on after we

Kent Thalman 7:12

die. And, and maybe you don't have kids, or maybe that's something that might not happen to you in this life, but it's the same effect. It's like, Even if we extend it beyond family and we just save relationships in general, the, the associations we have with people, the way we treat people, I mean, look at the way Fred Rogers treated people and look at the legacy he's left. I mean, if you want to, if you're unfamiliar with any of that, then just watch, the documentary. Won't you be my neighbor and you'll get a sense of the legacy that he's left. Profoundly, not just in the lives of those, who've lived past him, but the lives of anyone who comes in contact with his media, right. His show. And so there's a sense that even those of us that don't necessarily believe in a God or in an after life or anything, we sense that relationships and families are more important than. You know, means to ends, right? These are the ends. These are the purpose. They've got something to do with the purpose of life. If there, if there is one, right?

Anna Thalman 8:09

Yeah. And I think we sense that when we actually sit down and look, you know, and think consciously about what matters most, but maybe the problem is sometimes we don't do that. We just live our lives and we just go from day to day. Might not actually be living according to that belief, even if we have it, we're not thinking about it. And, and those things that matter most can sometimes get pushed to the sidelines.

Kent Thalman 8:34

Yeah. So why some stories in juror forever is the next point we wanted to talk about, there's kind of two forms of this, right? There's like the books or the movies or whatever that just permeate. Our culture. They're like, they S they become landmarks and they stay that way. They don't get old after decades and like Indiana Jones. It's not, it's not, it's not, I mean, let's be honest, that movie stuck around forever. And, and like, there are other movies, like, it's a wonderful life. That's an even older film that I think has lasted even more intensely. As this movie. So many people watch every single Christmas and sometimes not during Christmas. And, there's movies, even older than that, that I think have really stuck into our culture. Books are the same, like Jane Austin and, Shakespeare and other people who've made works of art that just get read by, old people, young people, students, whatever, over and over and over for generations. And then there's also like, we'll get on to the discussion of archetypes a little later, but, but there are sort of the. Even older stories that are archetypes archetypes or whatever, and they just stick and they last and they don't go away and maybe they find themselves in different forms in different cultures. But you

Anna Thalman 9:43

look at like Grimm's fairytales and ASAPS fables, and, and

Kent Thalman 9:47

Christian Anderson and

Anna Thalman 9:49

over and over again in different contexts and cultures. And they just don't seem to get all people, keep telling them to their kids fall

Kent Thalman 9:58

and, and film studios keep retelling them in new contexts and readapting them. And so there are some that just keep staying relevant and every new child finds a new form of that story in their lives somehow. So why do some of these stories stick so hard? In our culture and in our minds and in our history.

Anna Thalman 10:20

Yeah. I think that's a really good question. Why do these stories Inder forever and pass the test of time, which is exactly what this quote is we're talking about today is, what matters most last, the longest. So if the test of time helps to prove. We can kind of look at this in reverse and say, what lasts the longest are the things that matter.

Kent Thalman 10:43

And, and, you know, people are flawed, but what's interesting is flawed people and not flawed people, which if there are any such thing, they all die. And so as we pass generation to generation, generations have a funny way of noticing all the flaws of their previous generations. Right. And so. We notice when our previous generations, our predecessors they're doing dumb things. It's so obvious that slavery was such a bad idea in the United States, you know, in the 1860s or whatever. And it seems so obvious to us. And yet that was something that. Lost their lives over, you know, like it was this big thing. And then we look back and say, well, I never would have, you know, blank, whatever done that dumb thing that everyone did. Or we look back at history and yet, sometimes we also, in our current day and age, we get wrapped up in. What's current, what's political, what's accurate. What's not accurate. What's right. What's wrong. What do we think about these current issues that we're thinking hard about? And I think that over time, people have a way of being able to say. That movie is outdated. We've seen movies, right? Where we're like, whoa, this is like a racist film. Like this is kind of out of touch, like this movie didn't age very well. And I think it's because they were making the film that was either wrong. Sometimes that's the case or sometimes it just, it really wasn't hitting on anything that really mattered very much. And then I also want to keep in mind. That film itself is an extremely young medium. So when we're talking about stories that pass the test of time, very few films can, you can say that, you know, because they, I mean, the oldest films are from like 1895, right? So it's, that's like recent history compared to the oldest literature. Thousands of years older than the oldest film. So, with film, you can take that with a grain of salt, but like really look at literature when you're just talking about stories in general why do some stories endure forever? And I really think it's because. There about the things that matter most. And so we look at some of these have to do with our character we look at why did things work out for Cinderella and why did things work out for Hansel and Gretel? Why does the prodigal son still stick with us and why are we still talking about, the virtuous and the evil and, and these ASAPS fables, which are trying to teach right and wrong. And, and they're just certain values and characters and the way that stories turn and twist that illustrate principles and values and relationships in the, in the illustrate life in a way that we feel. Touches on something that really matters.

Anna Thalman 13:21

I think about, for example, the boy who cried Wolf is one that I felt compelled to teach my kids when the time came for them to understand why lying is not good. And. I wasn't telling it to them because it was my favorite story growing up, or because it was really emotional. It's just a great illustration of a principle that I wanted them to understand. And they weren't quite understanding it when I just explained it, but the story really drives it home and helps them remember. What can happen if you tell a lie and you don't tell the truth and people don't actually know if they can trust

Kent Thalman 13:59

and they don't trust you anymore. Yeah. It's interesting how, in that case, you know, ASAP, we all know who's kind of writing, useful stories, they were there, they were almost like tools as opposed to just entertainment.

Anna Thalman 14:12

Cool stories you mentioned or parables, they were to teach.

Kent Thalman 14:17

Maybe a little more profound in my opinion than ASAP. And they maybe have a little more higher purpose, but they do dat for sure. Like you're saying a lot of them illustrate maybe even just a cautionary tale, you know, or some sort of lesson or a value.

Anna Thalman 14:32

Some of them, so aptly illustrate values that we still hold. So that's part of why they endure so long because those truths that they teach or that they demonstrate. Applied to everyone regardless of time, period, or circumstance otherwise, they're still applicable.

Kent Thalman 14:52

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think that's a good, one of the reasons there is this test of time exists, in my opinion, why it's so important to pass it, is because, it really testifies to the truth of the thing. Not always, but it can often be like, is it true today? Still? Is it true after this many generations? And if not, then usually it fizzles out. And we see through it after a while because it's lost its security. Of its modern context, you know, it's maternity. And so once it's lost that, if it's still working, if it's still resonating, if it's still teaching, if it's still inspiring, whatever it is then. Yeah. And it

Anna Thalman 15:32

doesn't have to be a strictly didactic story either. I think even comedies that lasts the test of time, we, we love David leans Hobson's choice and that one is still. Great and funny, and the awful truth is an old, black and white movie. That's still very funny, but it also values marriage.

Kent Thalman 15:52

And I will say that there is a strong didactic spine to those films, but they don't, but they don't what I think, especially in modern times, both in literature and in film, we've learned the value of entertainment. Maybe this has existed for longer, even still even Shakespeare, even the Bible. I think even some of these other stories that are very, very old. Like you said, our kids couldn't really listen to just a lecture. They could listen to a story though. And the story just captivates your imagination. It's more memorable. It kind of

Anna Thalman 16:26

entertaining. I still have a tail, like the Lord of the rings. That's an epic journey and it's very exciting, but it still teaches things and it still is really valuable. It's like food, you can have there's food that has. And it's not very tasty, but it's good for you, it's not going to probably be the recipe you pass down through generations because it doesn't taste very good. And then there's things that are fluffy and sweet, but have no nutritional value or substance. And those are also not going to last very long. The, the joy wears off once the stomach ache kicks in and then there's things that are delicious and wholesome. And so I think these films that have something really valuable that are based on things that matter, tend to have both they're enjoyable to watch, but they're also. Good. It's like they have a, a meaningful message that sticks with you and maybe changes the way you see the world. Yeah.

Kent Thalman 17:21

Well, and that, you know, that kind of ties in well to this next point, which is a lot about craft. And so we want to talk a lot about craft and fluency. We've talked a lot about that before in the podcast, but it hearkens to this. I think that sometimes you could maybe think about craft. Or fluency as relating to what you said was, the entertainment value or the sweetness, it's like, wow. That's a really exciting way to tell that. Or like it's an engaging way to put that together. You're putting the words together, just so or you're putting the shots together, just so, and, and you compare craft to. Maybe the things that matter most that you're actually trying to talk about the things that matter most to your, to you and your heart. And you're trying to get that into this, not just by sneaking some like healthy food into something that's not healthy, but like actually creating something that is doing something good. You have to marry those two things. And I think that sometimes what can happen. We become so obsessed and even in an effort to be disciplined, we become so good at our craft that the craft can become overrated when it overshadows. The things that matter most, when we're making films only about how great films are, or even just about something that isn't that important. I don't want to sound judgmental when I say that, because there's lots of things that are important to different people for different reasons. And I think it's worth giving a good listen to things, but sometimes have you ever watched a film in. That was pretty amazing in some ways, but it kind of left me feeling empty, even a book can, can do that, anything music. And I've been listening to some music lately and I won't say his name, but there's this remarkable musician who is, I think one of the most incredible musicians in history working right now. He's young. He's like in his twenties and I just discovered him recently and yet I listened to his stuff and I just feel like, yeah, It's kind of juvenile. Like the craft is incredible and the sound is fascinating and it opens your mind. It really does. It opens your imagination if you're into music or if you're a musician yourself to the possibilities of that medium. And there's tons of value there. I don't want to say that there's no value, but I can't listen to it for very long without feeling like I'm riding a roller coaster and I need one that's a little faster or a little taller for me to be perfectly satisfied. And that is like an endless loop. Then I find myself going back to the simple songs that I think are about things that really matter to me. And maybe it's not a genius writing that song, but it's genius to me. It really matters to me,

Anna Thalman 19:56

It is a balance too, because you could have a story about a subject matter that really matters. The craft is failing to effectively. Tell the story. In fact, today you brought this up, you were saying, why is it that I always feel like what did you say.

Kent Thalman 20:13

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm remembering what you're. So yeah, I said like, I feel like the things I want to make movies about, I never do them justice as a filmmaker. And, and then you said, well, What did you say? geriatric people that are like, why didn't you? I don't remember.

Anna Thalman 20:41

I said, that might just be a sign that you're. More the subject matter. If it's something that is a struggle to do justice to, it's probably a good choice to

Kent Thalman 20:52

talk about. Right, right. Yeah. I mean the media may, or may not really ever do justice to the thing because it will never be the thing. And the thing is what actually matters. Right. Family or your face or whatever your strong perspectives on life, these things that really matter the most to you. And that might be different to different people, to some extent. And I think some are kind of universal, but, um, yeah. Uh, thanks for helping me remember that. And absolutely, I think this is one of the things that a lot of us have various religions. I've seen films made by people who are, Islamic or people who are. Christian or people who are Jewish. Yeah. We've seen Jewish films and some are remarkable. And some just fall short of really doing justice to is this knows no religious bounds, even political films, you know, you're like, oh, okay. Like this seems to be feeling strongly about something, but the craft on display is distracting because it's not up to par, you know? And so there's a balance there, to your point.

Anna Thalman 21:58

Yeah. Well, and I think this is where the example of fluency in a language is really apt because film is a language. So if you, there is a level. Fluency that you need to obtain in the craft to not be distracting from what you're saying. If you are trying to speak a different language and you're not fluent to a certain, to a certain level, to be able to express yourself, that's going to really get in the way of what you're trying to say. You could be saying something very important, but it's not getting across because you're not saying it correctly. And you haven't learned the communication tools yet enough to be able to. But on the other hand, you could be extremely fluent and no all sorts of flowery words and put them together in a nice way and have. Nothing important to say. And that's also empty,

Kent Thalman 22:52

which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, which is, on the surface. They seem very profound, but deep down, they're really quite shallow, which I really love. And so you don't want to be in that situation. It's a balance, but it doesn't take. Killing yourself over, staying up all night and reading books and making tons of films and stuff to master the craft. I really think it's just steady, consistent, read a book here and there and make a film here and there and watch lots of films and read and watch and do all that stuff. That's going to make you a good filmmakers, a good craftsperson, but then. Focus your life on the things that matter most in life. And that's something that we've talked about this definitely before Stephen King talks about put your desk in the corner, not in the center of the room and remember why it's there because, art is a support system for life and not the other way around. And if you really do that, and you put your family and your relationships and your own health, and you actually value yourself as a person, more than the movies you're making. And, and this goes back to if you actually develop character and something that hit me once we did a marathon, one summer of high Amiya Zakys films. And I remember watching this over and over again, and one of our professors, Dean Duncan talks a lot about what he calls charitable cinema. And it's this idea of a film that loves almost like you watch it. And you're just compelled by love for the characters. And there was a concept that I, for some reason, struggled for a while as a young man in. In his classes to understand exactly what he meant and also to understand how do you do that? And it hit me watching some behind the scenes as, Hey army is AKI talked about, she hero our protagonist in the movie, spirited away. He said, I wanted to make her this obnoxious. Ten-year old. Those are my favorite ten-year-olds, you know, the ones where you're just like, oh, you're just kind of obnoxious. And I thought those aren't my favorite ten-year-olds those are my least favorite tenures. I don't like those people. I don't like to be around them. I don't like listening to them for long hours. And, and yet it hit me in that moment, high on music. He was making charitable films, meaning like loving films, because. He's a loving person. He loves his characters. He loves obnoxious. Ten-year-olds probably thinking of nieces or grandkids or something, and I, and I thought if I never become. The kind of person that he is, I'll never be able to make the kind of films that he makes. My point is with all that is that when you focus your life on the things that matter most, and you actually prioritize those things in your life and become the person you want to become and cultivate and nurture the relationships that do matter most. Your films will start to reflect that to a degree on their own, as long as you're just doing the steady, consistent little by little work of becoming fluent, which doesn't require once again, full dedication. I don't believe, I think

Anna Thalman 25:50

yeah, immersed in because a child grows up wherever they grow up and they learn that language without even having to try because they're immersed in it. And so if you surround yourself by art and you continually watch. Films and read stories by people who are very fluent and express themselves through that medium. Well, it will come through and you will also be able to do the same. I apologize for the sniffles and stuffy nose, a little bit of a cold. So you

Kent Thalman 26:22

sound great.

Anna Thalman 26:24

hopefully that doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to say too much. So let's talk about the great conversation. I love this idea of a great conversation that's been going on since the beginning of time. Capital

Kent Thalman 26:38

G capital C, right. Great.

Anna Thalman 26:40

Yeah, I read about this first in a homeschool book that was talking about a classical approach to homeschooling, which is to go back and study the classics and study from the beginning of time. Those things that have been studied since the beginning of time and how they've developed over time. And it talked about this idea of the great conversation and that there are topics that we have ruminated over in society. Through our art and through our stories,

Kent Thalman 27:12

our philosophy, our politics. Yeah. It finds itself everywhere. And. Each generation builds upon that conversation and sometimes makes progress in the conversation. Yeah. We

Anna Thalman 27:25

build on the foundation of what those who came before us, had to say and had to teach us about that topic. And then we add our own voice and our own insights. We're adding to the great conversation and we can do this. Really only very effectively, if we have been part of the conversation, if we are aware, I've listened

Kent Thalman 27:46

to the conversation that has happened up to this point, right?

Anna Thalman 27:49

Yeah. We don't want to jump in and try to say something that someone just said it can be a little

Kent Thalman 27:55

embarrassing. I like that metaphor. The idea of trying to jump into a conversation without you're like, I have a great idea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We've talked about that like 600 years ago. It's like having you read Plato, like we all know about that. And this is one way to, to tell stories that matter. Yeah. I like that you go back and you, and you mind history for the things that you have already seen conversed. And this is something that, Ts Eliot talks about in his essay. Tradition and the individual talent. And this is Ts Elliot, who was a contemporary of Robert Frost and Robert Frost called him, what did he call him? Not like an imposter. I'm forgetting the word, but. I thought he was a fraud, almost like he was an incredibly talented crafts person with nothing important to say it was the sense that I got from what you know, and has done more of the studying. And they did, they became friends. Yeah. But their early careers frost had some disdain because TSL, it was such a punk. And you know, he was the I'm going to do something no one's ever done before. I'm going to create something completely new. And then TSLA, in his later years, it goes on to write an essay that says you cannot create anything. There is nothing new under the sun, right? All you can do is recontextualize it based on knowing the tradition, knowing the great conversation that has happened up to this point, and then recontextualizing it for modern times. And it's because the things that matter most don't change. So if you're going to say something about how important our parental bond to a child is, well, I mean, you think you're gonna be the first person to say that, like, you know, like you're just gonna say it in your way, in the specifics of your life. And I think this is why. Martin SCRA says, he says that to make something universal need to make it more personal because, why is your relationship with your children so important to you specifically? And then you, you say that effectively. And then suddenly everyone says, well, I kind of relate to that. It's interesting

Anna Thalman 29:56

how. You could actually look at it as, this is a topic that has withstood the test of time. And I have a unique perspective on it. I have something I can say about it. I've had a

Kent Thalman 30:07

personal experience with that. Yeah.

Anna Thalman 30:10

Yeah, it's actually continuing good sign that this is something people care

Kent Thalman 30:14

about. Yeah. It gives it that freshness, that sense of this has happened before, but not quite in this way and film and in all media. His craft. It's the way you say it. And so making it a really unique film as a unique way of saying something that has probably been said before, or pairing things that have never quite combined that way before and with time. Those things naturally occur, right? Like no one could've made Lala land in the fifties because they were making movies about the fifties, but they made Lala land the way they made movies in the fifties about 2016. So that was kind of fresh. Right. We hadn't seen a movie like that for a long time, but we'd never seen a movie exactly like that ever, because it felt like a fifties movie, but there were Toyota Prius in it, you know, it's it's, you know, and, and there was people talking in language that we use in 2016 and it just shows. There's something about this that kind of is still working, but it's modern. It's new. It's just an example

Anna Thalman 31:13

case. He also pulled heavily from umbrellas of Cherbourg, which is a film that had been previously made and he doesn't first

Kent Thalman 31:21

time anyone had told a story about Rome.

Anna Thalman 31:25

Probably not, but it was a unique way of telling it, right. The entire movie is a song,

Kent Thalman 31:30

an opera it's yeah. Predates that movie, but

Anna Thalman 31:35

one long soundtrack, but it was a story that touched him and is pretty universal. It's really great.

Kent Thalman 31:41

Yeah. We're trying to dig for the things that last longest and bring them into our lives, our films first, our lives, then our films. If we're just doing it for the sake of. Referencing things that are classic, that's kind of a craft thing, but if we're doing it because we actually feel it, it's going to actually matter to us. And then our films will actually accomplish emotionally what we want them to. So I feel like there are a lot of filmmakers that think that referencing tons of other works of art. Like paintings or other movies or books is going to make their movie better. And maybe it does make their movie better, but I don't always think it makes their movie more profound, but other filmmakers may or may not use that particular technique, but because they feel a certain way, right. Or they demonstrate a certain virtue or character, a level of character, I guess, or have integrity or whatever you want to say. Their films embody that and you feel it and you feel inspired to be that way because they actually believe in or care about those things. Going back to my high on Miyazaki example, he asked. Loves people in his characters and he likes people, people, and their flaws are endearing to him. He doesn't go around feeling homogenous, stick towards the human race, you know, and like angry about all these people's flaws around him. Obviously all of us, I think, experience that to a degree, but like, if you can't overpower that in your life, you're never gonna overpower that in your movie and make a movie that. Just loves people, you know, and I, that's one of my favorite things about films or films that really love their characters. And you feel that love, it's a great feeling. Which is one of the things I love about the Lord of the rings trilogy, which we're revisiting right now. But you just, your heart just swells for love of those characters. And I think Peter Jackson is. Fun loving kind of goofy action packed comedy pack for the whole family kind of guy that he is. I mean, he made a movie that was very palatable and it was kind of entertaining, right? It's it wasn't this inaccessible art film. He still did something that I think really mattered and you don't have to be super intellectual or to make a movie that matters. And I'm not saying he's not intellectual. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be like a challenging art. All sorts of films can matter if the person making it believes in something that matters, anyway,

Anna Thalman 34:02

so if you are wondering, as I have wondered in my past, how do I find those. Those stories that have stood the test of time that are meaningful to me. And how do I go back and inform myself about the great conversation that has happened leading up to this? I really like Austin Cleveland's approach. He talks about finding your artistic ancestry. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Which is just basically your artistic family tree, so to speak. So you look back and say, who are the artists that I love? Let's say that you love. we love Corita, he's a modern master in Japanese cinema and

Kent Thalman 34:51

he's

Anna Thalman 34:51

amazing. He is amazing. And because we left creata, I think someone had called him a modern Ozu. And so we went back and found Ozu and you can just trace that back and say, who was Ozu inspired? And then you can say what they've done and follow their work. And then who was that person inspired by? Oh, like that person loved Shakespeare. Let's read this work by Shakespeare, whatever you trace it back. And you can just go generation by generation and find the people who've influenced the people who've influenced you. I would guess

Kent Thalman 35:23

Corsol was probably more influenced by Shakespeare than Ozu, but that's a, I get your points. I think this is a great way to, to explore it. And then it's worse looking at, ask yourself the question. Why does this resonate with me? And. Why does this feel so important to me? And then I really think that once again, that's craft stuff, referencing those films might help your film, but they're not going to actually make it necessarily work, emotionally the way you want it to. So I would really just invite everyone to take a personal inventory. Of how you're investing your time and what you're actually investing in, in your personal life. Are you investing in the things that truly matter most? And some of us in our hearts feel like. my relationship with my spouse is like my top priority, but our lives don't reflect that, you know, and I think all of us experiences to some degree, I'm not trying to make everyone feel bad. I I've definitely been like, okay, these are the things that matter most to me. And I'm definitely not giving it enough time compared to things that yeah. Priority time. Yeah, exactly. Compared to like things that aren't as important to me than I'll either put first or put or give way more time than that, you know? And so, doing that inventory and trying to strengthen. The things that matter most to you in your life. First, if you cannot accomplish this over time, and it's little by little, it's unlikely that you'll ever be able to make films that inspire people to do it's possible, but it's unlikely. And, and even if you succeed, what's the point of succeeded in making a film that helps everyone else have something you don't have. but what's really gonna make the most difference, I think is if we. Improve our character. If we improve our relationships, if we actually achieve something as a person in our lives, that leaves a legacy of all the people in our community and all the people within our sphere of influence. And it will extend into our films. It will extend into our stories and it'll extend, I think more powerfully, frankly, and, and it won't just do it for one lucky movie or two. It'll do it across your career.

Anna Thalman 37:25

So, yeah, you can't give in your storytelling, what you don't have in your life. And that's why in our program, we focus so much on all the areas of personal health and wellbeing, because you're going to be a better storyteller. If you. Create first, a life that you love, and then you can create stories that you love, but go out there and learn to create that for yourself and prioritize those things that matter most. And then you'll be able to say something so meaningful in the art that you create. Keep immersing yourself in the craft and learning and looking at great films and great stories, but also live a life that is meaningful.

Kent Thalman 38:11

Absolutely. Well, we hope that, things have come to your mind as to what you feel like you want to focus more on in your life and in your stories.